Posted by FlaNotary2 on 6/14/11 6:31am
Msg #386137

Ok, it is definitely time to make a new Msg 33325

for the newbies we keep getting every day. Msg #33325, while it at one time contained information relevant to the signing agent business, is now completely out of date. I think it may even be giving newbies false hopes that they will succeed in this business.

I know I get attacked for saying what I think to these newbies but everyone else thinks the same thing. Business is dead and the market can not handle any more notaries or signing agents, no matter which way you look at it. But when that newbie reads my response followed by 20 people saying that I don't know what I'm talking about, the newbie will think I'm just the Scrooge and that they should go ahead and dive in to the signing profession the same week they get their notary commission.

Unless we are united in our beliefs (and I know many of us are but are afraid to post it), we will continue to get more hopeful newbies and the market will become so oversaturated it will collapse.

Reply by Lee/AR on 6/14/11 7:35am
Msg #386140

Better idea... add this to 33325, which was created

to answer all the redundant questions by newbs--who seem to keep appearing and hoping regardless of the reality of the situation. It may be outdated, but it is a history... and those who don't learn from history are doomed to repeat it. There is still a lot of good info in that thread.

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 6/14/11 7:40am
Msg #386142

I'd actually like to see 33325 given it's own tab n/m

Reply by desktopfull on 6/14/11 1:56pm
Msg #386179

Wouldn't do any good, the newbies still wouldn't read the

website as evidenced from the 4 newbies in the last week. All they had to do was read the forum for the last week. They don't want to do any research to get the info that they seek. But they'll keep asking instead of researching the website. How complicated is it to see the Signing Central tab and the orange search tab and use them? Best suggestion is to tell them to use those and let them do their own searching for the rest of their "How do I set up my business?" If they want their own business bad enough they'll do the research.

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 6/14/11 7:37am
Msg #386141

I think you're right Robert...I just went back and read it

for the first time in a long time - yeah, I think we need a revised one...

However, this statement still rings true...

"Depending on the area that you are in, you may or may not be able to get work, i.e. many areas are saturated with notaries who fell for the NNA get rich quick scheme"

We here ARE united in our beliefs - unfortunately they new people don't come to us until they've already decided to jump in feet first without giving a thought to "Wow, I have a service to offer here!! But, does anyone here want or need my service?" More thought in that direction might lead to better "business" decisions.

But yeah, 33325 really needs updating..

JMO

Reply by MW/VA on 6/14/11 9:11am
Msg #386149

Yes, it probably needs updating, but the post is archival.

You've let everyone know how you feel about the signing agent biz, and you have your own agenda. Regardless of that, if it weren't for the signing agent biz there wouldn't be sites like NotaryRotary in the first place. The major sites were created as listing/advertising sites for the biz, which IMO created the need. Harry & staff own & operate the site. They don't need any of us to do that for them.
As far as "the market will become so oversaturated it will collapse", that is true of our entire economic system right now. I hope you've watched "Inside Job" & "Too Big to Fail" to get the big picture.

Reply by FlaNotary2 on 6/14/11 9:12am
Msg #386152

Marilyn - since you always go out of your way to infer that

I have some agenda/ulterior motive in my posts, I would really like to know what you think that agenda/ulterior motive is?

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 6/14/11 9:17am
Msg #386153

Since re-writing and updating 33325 would be such a

massive project, maybe the easier thing would be to merely clarify when we refer someone to it -

"Go to Msg #33325 and read carefully - obviously you'll disregard any references to business climate since we realize it's changed since then, but the basic information about running a business, marketing and success remain true to this day."

Reply by NJDiva on 6/14/11 10:43am
Msg #386155

Thank you for sharing Robert!!!

I absolutely agree with everything you said.

What's really unfortunate is that sometimes our DELIVERY, or what our tone infers (which is why this mode of communication is so difficult, you don't actually know WHAT the tone truly is), or even the snide comments that are included in the post, causes division and dissension at times.

I LOVE when you create and comment on posts in this manner. Unfortunately, what ends up happening is that there are times when you wind up undermining yourself and diluting the whole message because of a snide, arrogant or egotistical comment which will totally null and void every EXCELLENT point made within the post. Then I (speaking for myself) will lose respect for that message; it makes me not want to unite with you (THAT message), so as a result, the fact that, yeah maybe you're not actively in the NSA biz, you ARE current on what is happening in the field, you ARE scholared, (Is that a word? Don't beat me up for that one.) knowledgeable, skilled and competent to express and share valid information. Information I want to hear and know anyway. I'm not saying that I agree with EVERYTHING you share, but most times I appreciate it.

I will unite with you when it's kept on an issue (and I don't mean one that you have with another PERSON or certain individuals on the board.) that concerns the business and the field.

Please just take into consideration that it's uncomfortable to those of us not involved. We (I should speak for myself) don't want to be subjected to whatever disorder, conflict or difference of opinion of another PERSON which you have had or feel the need to defend yourself from. I read a post yesterday where you shared an AMAZING (IMHO) comment, but you ended it with a snide reference to Cari and it disgusted me to where I don't even remember what the great message was. I didn't see where she was referred to at all in that post, hence, I lost total respect for you and the message. I was going to comment on it, but decided it wasn't even worth it.

I don't mean to call you out. I'm not siding with anyone. Everyone is entitled to their opinion. I'm not trying to tear you down or build you up. These are all my personal thoughts, feelings and opinions, straight and simple.

I hope that people do not start abusing you. That's not my intention. My intent is to let you know that I, for one, do appreciate your input. However, I would request that we not use this forum as a way to "get our stuff off" against one person or another. I don't want to be privy to other people's throw up, thank you very much. And I most sincerely appeal to those who have issues with Robert, to please not reply to this in the forum. This is not about that.

Again, I implore you to please continue sharing your knowledge, skills and experience. I want to hear it.

Reply by NJDiva on 6/14/11 10:49am
Msg #386158

The above was referring to the initial post...

not what came below it. I can understand why you would feel the need to get defensive. But that's on them. Whoever stays the most professional is the one that will garnish my respect.

Reply by FlaNotary2 on 6/14/11 11:10am
Msg #386159

Re: Thank you for sharing Robert!!!

The reason for the "snide reference" to Cari is because every time I post on a newbie's thread (in which I typically discourage them from proceeding any further in this business), Cari immediately posts that I don't know anything because I don't practice as an NSA, and then gives the newbie some fake encouragement. When a newbie sees this, whose post do you think they will take more seriously? Mine or Cari's? They will focus on the one that says "Yes, go for it! You will be making $100,000/yr by the end of the month!".

We need to be realistic. Every day there are complaints of low ball signing services, disrespect of signing agents and notaries, people leaving the business, etc. At the same time, we have what seems like a dozen new prospective signing agents a week. I try to discourage them - not because I care about the "competition", because no one on this board is my "competition" - but because they are setting themselves up to dive in to a business where they will accept lowball fees and wind up with a loss. As long as these newbies keep oversaturating the market, signing services have no reason to pay more for a more experienced NSA. They can find someone to do it for $50, and those notaries are the best (in the signing service's eyes), because they just sign and stamp whatever is put in front of them and don't know their state laws well enough to make appropriate corrections. And if they make a mistake, the signing service can either convince that signing agent that it is their fault and therefore they will have to go out for free, or, even if they have to hire another $50 signing agent, they have still paid less than they would for an experienced signing agent.

And again, this does not affect me in any way. I could very easily live inside my own little bubble and not give a crap. But I do give a crap, and when I feel strongly about something I am going to make my opinion known. I'm not going to give a newbie false encouragement just to spite another poster.

I may be wrong, NJDiva, but I was under the impression that you are new here. If this is the case, you probably don't have a realistic picture of the problems between Cari and I that go back to my first month on this board. I have tried to rise above that and focus more on training notaries and educating the public and less on the bickering that goes on here.

There are some people that will criticize anything I post on this board, and I am beyond the point of worrying about what other people think. You can call me arrogant, but I feel that I am "above that". The comment I made to Cari was an attempt to avoid her umpteenth post about how I'm not a signing agent, because everyone on this forum is well aware of that and Cari's attempt to use that as an "insult" to me is ridiculous, because my credentials don't need another bullet point.

JMHO

Reply by BrendaTx on 6/14/11 1:08pm
Msg #386176

Agree about 33325. Question.

What does overly saturated mean to you?

I did a little bit of math earlier in response to this. As you know, I do not promote my notary business and I don't take many assignments because I am busy with other things. I have an ad here and I have a website.

Average months bring me the following calls:

One call a day at $6 per call to do walk up work = $180

Requests for mobile work = $350-$450, let's call it $400/month.

3 - 4 calls a week for signings = $1500 per month (+/-) figured on $100 (not my fee)

GROSS: $2080, less expenses...lets just divide in half =
NET: $1040.

Even if I am lying and it's only half that much, that is
NET: $520

$520 - $1040 a month looks really good to someone who needs just enough to make a car payment until they have a job. If they already have the equipment and half of the marketing know how that I do, then they might find a good experience and a greater return with this.

Don't you know that my little guy that I refer my general notary work to loves me?

==============

At work, I am one notary among 260 employees that I can verify use my services for business purposes throughout the day.

I have done real estate work and a few loan signings on lunch breaks or after work for my co-workers when they have mail-aways. They prefer a "notary professional" to take care of these things...someone who is discrete and does not care what their debt is or how much they make, rather than using someone that they know well, or someone who might be looking for SS's and DLs to use for bad purposes.

==============

The roster at the SOS site? Think of this. Bank notaries, law office notaries, government employees/ notaries without bond and all the other notaries working in a business where they do not serve "the public" are included in that roster.

==============

Make of this what you will. The area that one serves will have to do with whether or not they should consider this.

Reply by FlaNotary2 on 6/14/11 2:17pm
Msg #386185

Here is what oversaturated means to me


Within TEN miles of my office (not a hundred, not fifty, but TEN, yes TEN miles), there are four UPS stores, five non-UPS "pack & ship" stores, 17 Amscot (check cashing) locations, and well over 25 banks. Each of these locations has at least one (and probably more like three or four) notaries, and many Amscot locations are 24 hours.

According to the Department of State, there are approximately 131 active notaries in my *ZIP CODE* (an area of 5.8 square miles). This of course does not include the notaries who live in another zip code but work in my zip code.

In Florida we have one notary for every 43 people. If I am the only one that sees a problem with this, then everyone else needs a reality check. Notaries should not be novelties, we should be treated as the public officials that we are.

Reply by BrendaTx on 6/14/11 2:46pm
Msg #386187

Re: Here is what oversaturated means to me

*If I am the only one that sees a problem with this, then everyone else needs a reality check.*

Okay, Robert. That bothers me. I have nothing further to say.

Reply by FlaNotary2 on 6/14/11 2:57pm
Msg #386188

You don't see the problem with

one out of every 43 people being a commissioned public officer of the State of Florida?

Reply by BrendaTx on 6/14/11 3:10pm
Msg #386189

Re: You don't see the problem with



1 notary per every 49.36 people in my zip code.

I have previously outlined that not everyone of them is available to the public and other information that is useful for the purpose of this board.

You are entitled to your opinion, Robert.

I am entitled to state facts regarding my personal knowledge of the notary business (where I am) and I will not debate it. The facts stand.

Reply by rengel/CA on 6/14/11 3:52pm
Msg #386196

I don't see a problem with that...

Just about every law firm has at least 1 notary on staff - 99% of them probably don't notarize anything outside of the office for clients and staff.

There are 5 law firms and 2 court reporting services in my building AND every court reporter/stenographer is a notary. So, there are at least 20 - 25 notaries in my building alone! They don't sign for the general public but HAVE to have a notary commission for their job.

Which ones are you going to tell that they can't have a notary commission???????

My .02

Reply by Notarysigner on 6/14/11 3:58pm
Msg #386197

rengel/CA Excellent point, ditto n/m

Reply by MW/VA on 6/14/11 4:19pm
Msg #386199

Thanks for presenting it that way, Rhonda. The

"oversaturation" theory has been discussed many times before, IMO you can't go by the numbers, because the majority of notaries are commissioned for their jobs. Again, IMO the smaller percentage are mobile notaries or signing agents. I can tell you that when I get a call for general notary work on a Sunday and people will tell me that they couldn't find a notary anywhere.
The viability of the NSA profession is another matter entirely. Right now the viability of many professions is in question--construction workers, retail, assembly line workers, etc. We're not the only one's seeing the impact of the economy on our livelihood.

Reply by Bob_Chicago on 6/14/11 4:15pm
Msg #386198

Although the office of Notary Public , is ancient and

honored , most states do not deem it as such. Many require little more than a pulse and a few bucks to
obtain a commission, and then proceed to allow you to charge little more than pocket lint for your services. Illinois law allows one whole dollar, and is silent on the question of travel fees, An argument can be made, that an IL NP may not charge the consumer for travel or other charges in a straight notarization.
I would estimate that other than NSAs, most Notaries obtained their initial commission as required by
their employment, (law firms, title companies ,banks, contractors, etc, etc.) I became a Notary because it was necessary to have a commission in order to be a NSA. That seems to be XYZ's pitch, at least outside of CA where a NP can charge a decent fee for a notarization.
If you ask a kid "What do you want to be when you grow up?", I believe that NP would be way at the bottom of the list, right above bathroom cleaner in a bus station.
33325 is still important as written. If someone cares to update, they are free to add a comment to the thread. Dorothy was nice enough to write it in April of 2005, and it is still relevant. I note that comments have been added as recently as last December.
Yes notary training and knowledge is important. I believe , however, that many fraudulent notarized documets involve a NP who knew that they were doing wrong, and were doing so as a compensated party to the fraud.