Posted by Exclusive Mobile Notary on 6/27/11 11:56am
Msg #387831

POA with the principle being altered

So... You go to a nursing home to sign a POA. The principle is in an altered mental status, how so you proceed/refer them to?

Reply by Lee/AR on 6/27/11 11:59am
Msg #387833

You don't 'proceed' with someone referred to as being 'in an altered mental status'.

Reply by ikando on 6/27/11 12:06pm
Msg #387834

I always refuse to move forward under those circumstances. Unfortunately, if the person is in a persistent "altered state", the only option is to suggest the party who contacted you to get an attorney to go through the court system. The principal, in this case, will probably need to be placed under guardianship.

That's why I always advise the people who contact me for those situations to get their own paperwork in order. Waiting is not really a good option.

Reply by jba/fl on 6/27/11 3:09pm
Msg #387886

What I want to know: how did you decide it was the person this company was asking about and not their morals, ethics, scruples?

That was a tough one to read.

Reply by Stephanie Santiago on 6/27/11 12:11pm
Msg #387836

End/Wrap up the appointment and add a detailed note in your

journal. We cannot trust a signer's awareness or willingness of the document they are signing if they are in an altered mental state and.or if they have been coerced into signing the document.

Reply by Exclusive Mobile Notary on 6/27/11 1:17pm
Msg #387849

Re: End/Wrap up the appointment and add a detailed note in your

Good replies. Sounds like most are doing the right thing.

Reply by GOLDGIRL/CA on 6/27/11 1:39pm
Msg #387852

Was this a test? n/m

Reply by Notarysigner on 6/27/11 1:49pm
Msg #387853

ditto! n/m

Reply by FlaNotary2 on 6/27/11 1:52pm
Msg #387855

Not to be rude, but

what gives YOU the right to try and "test" our knowledge?

If you want to test some notaries, why don't you go visit your local UPS store and "test" some of those clueless notaries?

JMHO

Reply by FlaNotary2 on 6/27/11 1:56pm
Msg #387857

And furthermore

Take a look at your own website, http://www.exclusivemobilenotary.com/services/services.htm.

"All Notary Public's who work for Exclusive Mobile Notary carry the Bonding required by the Secretary of State. Our Notary Public's also carry additional "Errors and Omission" insurance to protect the client."

Last time I checked, the plural for Notary Public is NotarIES Public, not Notary Public's.

Again, I am not trying to be rude, although I know I am coming off that way right now. Personally, I think you have some nerve coming to a forum of professional notaries and trying to "test" us to see if we know how to perform a very basic acknowledgment.

I am a notary instructor and author. To be honest, I'm offended that you have the nerve to "test" me.

Again, JMHO

Reply by Lee/AR on 6/27/11 2:01pm
Msg #387861

Relax. That's his story & he's sticking to it. n/m

Reply by Calnotary on 6/27/11 2:01pm
Msg #387860

Wow, Robert! You are the man!! n/m

Reply by HisHughness on 6/27/11 2:06pm
Msg #387863

Cool your jets, Robert

He wasn't testing you. He was trying to see if he had made the right decision when he was confronted with that situation yesterday, and didn't want anyone to know that he didn't really know the answer. So he framed it as a "what-if" question.

Next he's going to hypothesize a trip to the grocery store, and a dilemma over whether to buy the day-old bananas for fruit salad Wednesday, or the slightly green ones. All while staring at the bowl of very brown bananas on his countertop.

Reply by Exclusive Mobile Notary on 6/27/11 3:55pm
Msg #387902

Re: Cool your jets, Robert

First off, FLA person needs to take the stick out of his/her ass. It was a simple question that I posed to the group. Out of the 30+ phone calls I receive on a daily basis, many more people are beginning to say other notaries have performed this scenario for the consumer. My response was to commend the other notaries for doing the right thing. Now go back to making other notaries look desperate by accepting another $75 loan doc signing.

Reply by FlaNotary2 on 6/27/11 4:08pm
Msg #387907

FIRST of all

This is a forum for PROFESSIONAL notaries... as in, notaries who do this for a living and who conduct themselves in a professional manner, i.e. following their state laws. Yes, there are notaries that do stupid things, but they are not the notaries on this board.

"Take the stick out of your ass?" Very professional.

So you can listen here Mr. "High-and-Mighty". I am a notary instructor (one of only 17 in the entire State of Florida). I've also been an expert witness in notary practices in 5 court cases. YOU are not going to test MY knowledge as a notary. Your opinion of me or any other member of this forum means less than nothing.

Reply by Marian_in_CA on 6/27/11 2:06pm
Msg #387862

We cannot determine what "altered mental status" is -- not our job.

In CA, we identify them using their ID, communicate with the person directly and ask them about the nature of the document. If they are unable to communicate or cannot express the nature of the document... THEN we can politely bow out.

Nowhere in California notary law are we supposed to determine "willingness" or "ability" to sign. Doing so is actually making a legal determination on their abilities.... and it's a line we don't want to cross. We can ask them if the contents are true (as in an oath) and we can review the acknowledgment wording wit them, which states that they claim be signing in an authorized capacity. Beyond that -- none of our business or authority.

As far as I'm concerned, if the person can communicate with me *directly* (no help from anyone) and express the nature of the document and has proper ID -- we're good to go.

A notarization is NOT a stamp of legal approval nor is it a determination of capacity to sign.

Reply by Philip Johnson on 6/27/11 3:07pm
Msg #387885

Here in WA it is our job

(2) In taking an acknowledgment authorized by RCW 64.08.100 from a person physically unable to sign his or her name or make a mark, a notary public shall, in addition to other requirements for taking an acknowledgment, determine and certify from personal knowledge or satisfactory evidence that the person appearing before the notary public is physically unable to sign his or her name or make a mark and is otherwise competent. The notary public shall include in the acknowledgment a statement that the signature in the acknowledgment was obtained under the authority of RCW 64.08.100.

I'm no doctor, but if easy questions about the date, who is President, etc. cannot be answered I will take my leave.

Reply by SouthernOK on 6/27/11 5:39pm
Msg #387929

I couldn't agree more, we are not physicians or lawyers.

Even my husband, a physician, will tell you he can't declare someone incompetent...only a judge can make this ruling (sometimes with the assistance of a physician.)

For us to state that someone can't sign a document based on their mental abilities could be opening the door to trouble.

Reply by LKT/CA on 6/27/11 8:52pm
Msg #387960

Agree with Marian, Philip and SouthernOK......we can only speak to the facts, i.e. I asked Mr. Jones his first name and he just stared at the ceiling....I asked Mr. Jones who the lady standing next to me is (his daughter) and he then just looked at the wall......I asked Mr. Jones if he can read me the title of the paper I put in front of him and he then just looked out the window.....etc.

No notarizing Mr. Jones's signature on a POA that day.