Posted by HrdwrkrVA on 6/8/11 11:33am
Msg #385488

Piggyback loans... do any of you give discounts to your SS's

when doing a 1st & 2nd? Here's how trying to "work w/ us" can come back to bite u in the butt:

I do 1st & 2nd for TC; $$$ for 1st & $$ for 2nd - straight fees for both - NO discount. This TC sometimes calls me directly (yay! mo' money), somestimes thru SS (I only find out when I get the confirm). It just depends on who the closer is (very large office).

So I get this piggyback & w/ part of the fee waived (basicically 1 e-doc fee) $ I end up doing 2 loans for the price of 1 (grrrr) !! TC is sooo late, docs printed @ realtor's office. TC still pays FULL fee (just as in the past), but SS wants me to waive TWO e-doc fees (remember I only chrgd ONE in the FIRST place). Signing took twice as long , 'cause Realtor still printing when I got there & this is NOT her forte (or her fault or her job)!

SS bacially tries to argue that I'm not using MY resources & wants to keep more of fee, which would have me doing TWO loans for LESS than ONE: $$ vs $$$+$$. I stood my ground prior to signing & only waived one e-doc fee (the ONE I actually chrgd them).

I still ended up doing TWO loans for $25 LESS than if I'd done just ONE for TC directly! Not to mention an extra hr of my TIME! So much for tying to foster good customer relations btwn me & SS by giving them a break! They STILL try to .05 & .10 you to death! Now it would be hilarious if REALTOR chrgd SS $25 for print fee or if TC deducted $25 from SS fee! Whew! SMH!!!

?'S:
1. Does anyone else discount piggybacks? TC's pay full fee to SS, so SS's arguement : you're only making 1 trip is hogwash; they just want more $$$$

2. How do I tactfully re-direct TC back to me EXCLUSIVELY (agin - it's a lrg office)? I worked for them for yrs BEFORE I"d ever worked for SS. I lost $125 on this deal! Thank for all input!

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 6/8/11 11:39am
Msg #385496

I would have discounted for no printing...yes

BUT I'd have added a fee back in for quality control of the printed docs since it wasn't her FORTE...

How much I charge for each loan depends on each loan - I've seen first and seconds where the packages were equal in volume and time required. If the second is smaller package I'll discount, but not by much....discount is mostly based on an "I'm already there" state of mind = no travel.

How you re-direct title back to you is tough - it's kind of unethical to go behind the SS's back - unless the SS screws everything up so badly that title yanks their account.

JMO

Reply by MaryAnn Cole on 6/8/11 11:48am
Msg #385506

Re: I would have discounted for no printing...yes

Most SS have us sign an agreement to not solicit from the title company. In situations where the title company contacts you directly, you are not soliciting. If in the case like the notary described where there was a prior work relationship, touching base with a contact is not really unethical.

Reply by BrendaTx on 6/8/11 2:04pm
Msg #385536

Re: I would have discounted for no printing...yes

I think that IF you have a relationship with the title company first it is not horrible to contact title and ask them why they are using an SS now. You might learn something important.

2ndly, I have a bit of a problem with soliciting to TCs when you have accepted the job from an SS. I don't send back flyers in the package. Bad form, I think.

3rdly - It can also get you in trouble with the tc and the ss. You wouldn't guess how many SSs have a 'friend' inside the TC.

Finally, I don't think that it is wrong to solicit ANY business outside of performing for an SS. It's all fair game.

Reply by BossLadyMD on 6/8/11 11:40am
Msg #385497

Waiving a fee is different for discounting it...

Did you originally agree to 'waive' the second e-doc fee? And remember it's not any of your concern what the TC paid full price for to the SS; it's what YOU agree to accept.

Reply by BossLadyMD on 6/8/11 11:42am
Msg #385498

Re: Waiving a fee is different *from* discounting it...

typo

Reply by HrdwrkrVA on 6/8/11 11:53am
Msg #385508

Yes, I told them when setting my fee for piggybacks that I'd

only chrg them one print fee. As for the TC, I'll get a call directly frm them in a week or so for a closing - it just depends on who(in that office) is handling the closing. I've worked directly w/ them for over 3 yrs now - waaaaay before I'd ever worked w/ this SS. So am I really being unethical?? Maybe just wait for the next call & reiterate for them to always call me directly? Afterall , they're STILL my client too?!?! Besides the money I obviously lose, this SS tries at every juncture, to .05 & .10 their notaries.

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 6/8/11 11:58am
Msg #385511

I see your point and kind of agree

I'd give it a couple weeks then call my normal contact and ask them what happened - are they now using an SS rather than direct calling..

I've had title companies go to the SS sysltem - a good, ethical SS who knows you have a prior relationship with the title company will note that and tell the title company to call you directly when there's something in your area.

Reply by MaryAnn Cole on 6/8/11 11:43am
Msg #385501

Forget tact!! This a business - be business- like but firm. Call your contact at TC - explain that you are available and I would follow up with a letter (not email) stating fees, hours available, etc. If you have a flyer or letter you use, send it. I can't say it enough - this is a professional business!!!!!

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 6/8/11 11:47am
Msg #385504

Wow MaryAnn...you'd do that??

Get hired by an SS then contact title and tell them "call me direct, don't go through them"..??

Wow...

Reply by HrdwrkrVA on 6/8/11 11:57am
Msg #385510

Linda- I ALREADY work WITH this TC! It's a lrge office.

They usually call me, but obviously have new ppl. I've NEVER tried to steal an SS's clients. I just want to be professional AND tactful about it.

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 6/8/11 11:59am
Msg #385512

Never accused you of stealing clients... n/m

Reply by HrdwrkrVA on 6/8/11 12:11pm
Msg #385523

No, no you didn't - I was just emphasizing a point. n/m

Reply by Teresa/FL on 6/8/11 12:02pm
Msg #385516

How about contacting the EO you work directly with at the TC

and asking him/her to share your information with the others in the office?

I have a smiliar situation and always make sure I send my business cards back to my EO direct contact. She has told me that some of her co-workers choose to use a SS so they don't have to individually schedule their closings...

Reply by MaryAnn Cole on 6/8/11 11:59am
Msg #385513

Re: Wow MaryAnn...you'd do that??

You know that is not what I said! No, I would never do get hired by an SS then contact TC and tell them to call me direct. Read my post again in its entirety. Listen, I have been in the mortgage/real estate business 30+ years. This signing stuff is nothing new. The only difference for me is that I service more then 20 of the 95 counties in my state so I am really a Mobile Notary!!

Reply by BrendaTx on 6/9/11 5:37am
Msg #385616

Re: Wow MaryAnn...you'd do that??

*No, I would never do get hired by an SS then contact TC and tell them to call me direct. *

I have.

When I have been working directly for a tc and I have a relationship with them and I have worked on files identical to it, I call and ask "What's up...did I do something wrong? I'll do the signing for the SS if you prefer, but I just want to make sure that if there's a reason why you stopped calling me and went to an SS..."

Their response? "That was a mistake and I don't know how that happened. You do it, I will take care of this....we want you to do our work in your area. This was an oversight. THANK YOU for calling me."

Reply by Teresa/FL on 6/9/11 10:20am
Msg #385637

Brenda, I have done the exact same thing

with the same results, the TC hired me directly and cancelled the order with the SS.

Reply by CopperheadVA on 6/8/11 12:22pm
Msg #385527

I had a truly horrible experience once when the TC insisted that docs would be printed at the realtor's office (I was hired through a SS on that job). The realtor had a horrible time printing everything out - it took FOREVER (I think it was an ink jet printer!) and there were duplicates and triplicates of stuff. Also, some of the docs were cut off at the bottom.

After that experience I will not agree to having the realtor print the docs out (and you can bet they are not paying the realtor an e-doc fee!). I will agree to it if the loan officer prints and the closing is at their office because they are used to printing lots of docs. But never again at the realtor's office!

Reply by HrdwrkrVA on 6/8/11 12:33pm
Msg #385530

This was a purchase. HUD & other docs had to be faxed before

5pm AND dropped that day! The lady buying was soooo sweet & it was her first home. Stepmom was realtor & she was super sweet also. I know this is a business & all, but despite SS trying to get over on me, the look on her face when I shook her hand & said"congratulations, you are now a homeowner" had me smiling all the way as I rushed to get pkg out on time! Some things ARE priceless :-)

Reply by JanetK_CA on 6/9/11 2:39am
Msg #385615

Re: This was a purchase. HUD & other docs had to be faxed before

Here's my take on this - but it's late, I'm getting bleary-eyed, and I had a bit of a hard time following your post. BUT I think Teresa/FL may have a good point. You said it's a big office at this tc and I'm getting the impression that the individuals there each use their own method of finding notaries. You work with some of them, but it seems that some - you said there were some new folks there - prefer to use a ss, and those folks aren't yet your clients. Right so far?

If so, I think part of your frustration is in thinking of all of the business coming from that office as yours. What makes the most sense to me is to think of work that comes to you from a ss as just that, and forget (for the moment) the fact that it originates from a title company that you get direct work from. Once you've accepted the job from the ss, you then have to price it as you would for any ss, and forget (in this instance) what you would get working direct - because in that situation, you would NOT be.

So my response would likely be to give them my fee without printing AND a slight discount since I didn't have to make two trips. I don't agree that this is hogwash BUT it assumes a reasonable fee to begin with. There's no way that this would come to less than $XXX! (That would be upfront. Once the printing at the Realtor's office became a nightmare, I might want to have a chat with the ss about that... After all, a good part of the printing fee is about the time involved, imo.)

Also, you can't be losing money on business that you didn't have. After all, just because you've worked for them in the past doesn't mean they're obligated to give you all their business in the future. So I don't get your claim that you lost money on this deal. More than ever, this is a very highly competitive business.

However, once that signing is over, I would have no qualms about going back to the people I know there and working at earning the business back or getting more business from others in that office, since they've already been a client of yours. Two separate issues, imo.

Finally, I totally agree with you about first time home buyers. I often spend more time on those than others probably do, but I love helping them through the process and their appreciation IS very gratifying! (It doesn't pay the bills, but it sure makes you feel good!)

Reply by SharonMN on 6/9/11 9:59am
Msg #385633

Yes, I discount the 2nd loan on a piggyback, because much of my fee accounts for my time and gas spent driving to the borrowers and then to drop the package, and on a piggyback I only do that once. I charge about 1.5 x the standard rate. I still charge two print fees if its edocs, though - and those are due once I print regardless of what happens after that.

I expect this is how most people do it so when you didn't have to print the docs they probably automatically deducted $50 ($25 print fee x 2 loans).