Posted by KSdawn on 6/23/11 10:49pm
Msg #387506

What do you think?

I am considering a marketing piece to send to title companies specifically asking that they "take out the middleman" and call me directly for their signings. Do you think I would lose business from the signing companies that use me if they were to get wind that I sent this out?

Reply by Mike_D on 6/23/11 11:19pm
Msg #387508

of course you would.

Reply by Sha/CA on 6/23/11 11:23pm
Msg #387509

What a great idea. You may loose some business, but you may get more or better business if you take it to the title companies personally. Isn't it the escrow officers that make the decisions? Go meet them and hand them your letter. JMHO.

Reply by JanetK_CA on 6/24/11 12:09am
Msg #387514

I'd say it all depends on how you go about it. If you do a generic marketing campaign, culling your recipeints from public info, it'll either work or it won't. If you use contact info you got as a result of doing a signing for a ss to go after a company you know is their client, it could hurt you big time. We can't be prohibited from marketing our businesses to as many companies as possible, but I think most would consider it unethical to try to go around someone's back like that.

Like with most things, the devil is in the details.

Reply by HisHughness on 6/24/11 2:37am
Msg #387516

Title companies use signing services for a reason

It's the same reason that manufacturers' use wholesalers: Most of the time, it is more productive to make one bulk sale to a wholesaler than 200 small sales to the end user. The same dynamic holds true for closings. Title companies do not want to devote the resources to tracking down notaries for each closing. They would rather pay a signing service a small fee and use TC personnel to do what title companies do best.

The people who own and operate title companies are not ignorant of the dynamics of their business. They know they could "cut out the middleman" if they wished. You would not be telling them anything they do not already know. They have elected not to do that, and there was a reason they did.

There is no harm in marketing directly to TCs, unless in doing so you are undercutting your existing SS clients, and that is unethical. You should, however, just sell yourself and your capabilities, not suggest to them that they don't know how to run their business.

JMHO.

Reply by nobhill on 6/24/11 2:27pm
Msg #387578

Re: Title companies use signing services for a reason

We could encourage them not to use any agency that has a long pattern of shafting notaries though. We could encourage the title companies to use only those agencies notaries approve of as a group. We could start an organization as such to promote using only such an organization's approved list of agencies.

Reply by MikeC/NY on 6/24/11 5:55pm
Msg #387600

Re: Title companies use signing services for a reason

The problem with this approach is that you're walking a thin line - at what point does your "encouragement" potentially become libel? How does an agency get on the "approved list"? Do you want to pay a lawyer to figure that out and then defend you in court if you screw it up? I sure don't...

The goal of marketing should be to highlight the benefits you offer. Taking a swipe at your competition doesn't further that goal; better to take the high road. Ignore the competition and focus on what YOU can do for the customer you're pitching to.

Reply by KSMONotary on 6/27/11 12:49pm
Msg #387841

Re: Title companies use signing services for a reason

Perfect response.

Not to mention some SS are now offering fees competitive to the individual agent.

Reply by BossLadyMD on 6/24/11 7:43am
Msg #387522

I did this years ago; best decision I ever made! :) n/m

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 6/24/11 7:49am
Msg #387523

I market directly to title companies from my own

research sources - I don't market to title companies that have been involved in any SS deals I've done.

And it's just a straight marketing - no "eliminate the middleman" - more along the lines of "I'm available for you and here's what I bring to the table"... most times the TC's request additional info and add me to their list; I've had a few tell me what SS they use for scheduling - then I take it from there and follow up with the SS if it's a good company.

Providing you're not going behind the back of the SS, IMO you have nothing to lose and everything to gain.

JMO

Reply by BossLadyMD on 6/24/11 8:05am
Msg #387525

Correct, market yourself, dont refer to a 'middle man' n/m

Reply by Les_CO on 6/24/11 9:12am
Msg #387526

I would say go ahead. You may get more business. If you market to title companies that have the resources to do their own scheduling. If you are trying to market to title companies that use a SS, I’d say don’t bother. Title companies use a SS because of convenience, and because they don’t have to pay an employee to do the work. When these companies get an order they send it to the SS. If they happen to get an order say in your zip code do you think someone is going to drop everything and call you to do the signing? I don’t think so. Also title companies don’t care about “the middle man,” especially if you plan on charging the same fee as the SS. Remember if it’s done honestly the notary/remote closing fee is on the HUD and the borrower pays, and most (honest) title companies don’t care if the borrower pays a SS or you. JMO

Reply by LKT/CA on 6/24/11 12:14pm
Msg #387552

<<<If you use contact info you got as a result of doing a signing for a ss to go after a company you know is their client, it could hurt you big time. We can't be prohibited from marketing our businesses to as many companies as possible, but I think most would consider it unethical to try to go around someone's back like that.>>>

I think Janet's specific statement is better than just "don't market to TCs that use SSs. If the Notary has never worked for the SS contracted with the TC, I see no harm in marketing directly to that TC. As a matter of fact, if we knew what TCs worked with slow pay/lowball/no pay SSs - marketing to those TCs just may eliminate the middleman.

Part of a marketing campaign to TCs working with slow pay/lowball/no pay SS could be:

"Are you frustrated by loan packages returned improperly signed, missing signature, missing initials, improperly notarized, and your instructions not followed to the letter? Do you have to pay additional fees for an experienced, professional Notary to return to the borrowers to complete the job correctly? Aren't your borrowers annoyed by having to sit through another full loan signing so an experienced Notary can complete the job correctly? Wouldn't it be more cost productive to hire the right Notary to complete the job correctly the 1st time? Are you frustrated by Notaries contacting YOUR office because the SS failed to pay them for a loan signing completed, yet you've already paid the SS?

A job completed correctly the first time by a professional and experienced Notary - hired directly by you will save you the trouble of having to hire another Notary to fix the errors. This saves you time and money and you won't receive calls from Notaries stating they were not paid for their work."

Just A Thought

Reply by Les_CO on 6/24/11 2:29pm
Msg #387579

I sort of like your thought…But I sort of disagree with you on some points.
First of all good honest Title Companies don’t use low-ball or deadbeat SS’s. Only those trying to make a few extra bucks keeping an undisclosed amount of the notary/remote closing fees charged to the borrower. Don’t you suppose those who hire these deadbeat low-ballers know the kind of people they are dealing with?
Secondly you say: “ hired directly by you will save you the trouble of having to hire another Notary to fix the errors. This saves you time and money and you won't receive calls from Notaries stating they were not paid for their work”
Well…the hiring/scheduling/coordinating/follow up of a NSA to do a signing is a lot of work, much more than forwarding an order to a SS.
The Title Company does not usually “hire another notary to fix errors.” Unless they hired the notary in the first place (more work for title) they rely on the SS to hire someone else (at SS expense) or send back the original notary to fix whatever mistakes made.
Agreed if they hire deadbeats they should not only put up with non-payment issues, but be responsible and pay the notaries. That’s if they care…you think they care?
JMO

Reply by LKT/CA on 6/25/11 12:44am
Msg #387647

<<<First of all good honest Title Companies don’t use low-ball or deadbeat SS’s.>>>

I agree with you, Les, which is why I said this: "Part of a marketing campaign to ***TCs working with slow pay/lowball/no pay SSs*** could be:"

<<<Well…the hiring/scheduling/coordinating/follow up of a NSA to do a signing is a lot of work, much more than forwarding an order to a SS.>>>

One call to a SS is less work than the TC agent making several calls to fill an order. However, having to call the SS back to handle repairing a botched signing is a lot more MONEY unless they get the original Notary back out to correct the error. Sometimes, the original Notary may not be available.

<<<The Title Company does not usually “hire another notary to fix errors.” Unless they hired the notary in the first place (more work for title) they rely on the SS to hire someone else (at SS expense) or send back the original notary to fix whatever mistakes made.>>>

Yes, I'm aware that the TC calls the SS to solve the issue of the Notary errors, if the SS arranged the loan signing.

<<<Agreed if they hire deadbeats they should not only put up with non-payment issues, but be responsible and pay the notaries.>>>

Totally agree with you here.

<<<That’s if they care…you think they care?>>>

Some care, at some point they will get sick of Notaries calling them for payment when they've paid the SS. They'll also probably get sick of TCs that cannot get orders filled. I think there was mention of a SS that's now defunct because they couldn't fill TC orders - time finally caught up with them and no Notary would accept signings from them. It may take a long time but I believe eventually one by one when slow pay/lowball/no pay SSs cannot fill orders and have to turn back orders to the TC plus the TC gets fed up with Notaries calling THEM about payment AND the TC must pay more money to the SS to send a professional Notary to clean up messes - those useless companies will one by one disappear.

All speculation and wishful thinking on my part.

Reply by LKT/CA on 6/25/11 12:46am
Msg #387649

Oops

Meant to say: They'll also probably get sick of SSs that cannot get orders filled.

Reply by nobhill on 6/24/11 2:25pm
Msg #387577

Re: How About an Organization?

Very interesting timing, I was thinking about starting an organization to promote local notary businesses rather than any agency that has a long pattern of short changing, delaying payments and non-payment of notaries. Such an organization could work with the banks and title companies to discourage them from losing these loser agencies that continue to shaft notaries who act more as parasites then viable services.

Reply by Les_CO on 6/24/11 2:36pm
Msg #387583

Re: How About an Organization?

I think you should do that. You could compile a list of all the deadbeats out there, SS and Title Companies alike, and send it to every lender/broker noting that using any of the people on the list is doing their customers a disservice, and that they may be complicit in fraudulent activities.

Reply by SouthernOK on 6/24/11 3:37pm
Msg #387587

Publishing a list...libel, anyone?

Even if it might be true, most people wouldn't want to hire an attorney to defend them in court.

You might not want to poke a stick at that monster.

Reply by Les_CO on 6/24/11 4:20pm
Msg #387589

Re: Publishing a list...libel, anyone?


Oh come on.... with as many notaries as there are in CA (170,000) perhaps she could get them all to contribute to her association? She could easily go nationwide! Especially if she did that deadbeat list. She would probably make more than doing signings? And have enough left for lawyers (if needed). I for one would be willing to send her $5 to help in her efforts. My contribution would have to remain anonymous, as I just hate being named in lawsuits but…. I wish her Good Luck!

Reply by MW/VA on 6/24/11 8:30pm
Msg #387618

My advice would be to market yourself & not refer to any "middlemen" or "ss". I'd also be careful that you're not marketing to any cos. you've worked for through an ss.
The trend for me has been to get more work from ss & less from tc's directly. While some will bash all ss, I've worked with some of the best & some of the worst in the biz. Regardless, I wouldn't be in biz without them, and get more regular biz coming my way in any given month from ss. It pays the bills.

Reply by KSdawn on 6/30/11 10:57pm
Msg #388333

Thank you all for your thoughts. It has been very helpful.