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Posted by Karla/OR on 1/22/12 2:48am
Msg #409593

Looking for suggestions . . .

I have had a number of GNW jobs lately for POA notarizations for elderly people in the hospital. I'm talking people who's next step is with Hospice care.

After finishing the notary work, I have been going up to the bedside of the signer, put my hand on theirs, and telling them it was nice to meet them, and ask if it is okay that I put them in my prayers. I have so far had favorable responses.

Is this an acceptable thing to do as a notary?

Thanks in advance.





Reply by Linda_H/FL on 1/22/12 7:29am
Msg #409594

I personally think it's a wonderful thing to do

You may be a notary first, but you're still a human being and so are they - there's no shame, nor law against, showing compassion to another.



Reply by Carolyn Nee on 1/22/12 8:11am
Msg #409595

Re: I personally think it's a wonderful thing to do

I second Linda's comments. I was thinking almost the exact thoughts. Your words to those individuals may have brought more comfort than you realize. Often times we forget that we don't always have to do big things to bring joy to this world - just something as simple and beautiful as what you did.

Reply by HisHughness on 1/22/12 10:03am
Msg #409597

There are signing agents who believe that the best way for them to do their job is to be all business. They go in, they get the closing done in the minimal amount of time and with error-free efficiency, and they get out. It seems to work for them.

I cannot do that. If the borrower is at all amenable to it, I try to establish some sort of connection beyond a simple business transaction. I have a menu of quips -- "If it asks for a date, you have to date it. If it doesn't ask for a date, it's just like me on Saturday nights, no date" -- and jokes that fill in the time chinks. I ask about children, and, if age appropriate, ALWAYS ask about grandchildren. Fortunately, since the audience is constantly rotating, the same quips and the same jokes can be recycled. (One of the most unsatisfying closings ever for me was one that because I title company errors, I had to go through three times. There was nothing, absolutely nothing, left in my bag of bon mots by the time third closing rolled around.)

There are those on this forum who have brushed off my approach as that of a garralous and senile Olde Phart more interested in hearing himself talk than in getting the job done. Those people, I'm confident, are the signing agents who go in and do not deviate at all from the business at hand. And I'm sure their clients are grateful that they got the job done so efficiently.

But I also know that in almost half of my closing, and in a greater percentage of closings where the borrowers had been through the process at least once before, the signers are enthusiastic about making something boring into something pleasant. Beyond that, I know that my approach works for ME. I'm at a place in life where I'm damned if I'm going to spend my time doing something I don't enjoy, and the most endearing thing about what I do is interacting for an hour or so with the borrowers I sign.

So, yes, Karla, my answer would be, if you can connect with a client on a very human level, by all means do it. And be grateful the opportunity arose.

Reply by Carol Graff on 1/22/12 12:01pm
Msg #409606

completely agree with Hugh & others

I always try to "connect" with my borrowers, especially if they are elderly or sick. I had planned on visiting one 93 yr. old man regularly, but he died w/i a short time.

Reply by jba/fl on 1/23/12 11:13am
Msg #409658

Absolutely - wherever and whenever anyone show their

humanity and assist anyone else in a personal way, go for it. There is enough brusqueness and standoffishness already. It is personally satisfying all around.

Don't lose opportunities such as this...life is too short for any regrets.

Reply by Eve/VA on 1/24/12 7:43am
Msg #409717

HisHughness -- I used your Saturday night, no date line

at my last signing. Hope you don't mind. It got some laughs and then an offer to fix me up with her brother Which was sweet but maybe I won't use it again. : )



Reply by HisHughness on 1/24/12 10:06am
Msg #409727

Uhhh...Eve...I'm still free. n/m

Reply by Eve/VA on 1/24/12 10:11am
Msg #409728

LMBO Nothing is free in this life, you know that n/m

Reply by Jodith/WA on 1/26/12 2:45pm
Msg #409941

I completely agree with Hugh. I can't tell you how many people have thanked me for making the process not just efficient, but pleasant as well.

I generally take my cue from the signers. If they deadpan me on my first quip, I keep it businesslike. But if they're friendly and chatty, then I reciprocate.

Reply by Susan Fischer on 1/22/12 10:35am
Msg #409598

Great thread. Can't add a word to the other fine responses,

except to say: I've found that connecting on a human, personal level, always nourishes my heart and gladdens my mind.

So, let your love light shine, Karla, and many thanks for sharing it with all of us.

Reply by Belinda/CA on 1/22/12 11:45am
Msg #409604

You are not hiding your light under a bushel. Good job.

Reply by Buddy Young on 1/22/12 11:49am
Msg #409605

Karla, you sound like a real sweet person.

I also like to connect with borowers on a personal level, it makes the signing more pleasant for the clients and for me. It also transforms the stone faced, grouchy signer into a more relaxed person, and makes the signing more pleasent for all.

Keep up the good work.

Reply by Blueink_TN on 1/22/12 1:37pm
Msg #409608

A kind gesture only takes a moment and usually will influence the recipient in a very positive manner. Whether they feel comforted or maybe even able to pay it forward. May God bless you Karla for being a bright spot in those people's life.

Reply by BrendaTx on 1/22/12 3:48pm
Msg #409614

Sensitivity is the key.

If you detect that they would be receptive to it, then I would say yes. I am all for the human touch and a word of comfort to anyone. I know that my stepmom would love it. Others will not.

I have had more than enough of people in my life who did not understand boundaries. Therefore, I'm very concerned about crossing the boundaries of others. My sister, for instance, would hate it if a stranger touched her without asking permission...I know another family member who would feel patronized. You might want to consider that and go for the hand as more of a handshake than a touch, if you know what I mean.

In difficult times, I did not like it when anyone shared concerns for me, even though, I probably needed lots of empathy and sympathy at those times. The nicer way to be would have been to just treat me normally. So, I'm saying that it depends on the person and the time.

I certainly endorse offering any human engagement that a dying individual might want to receive. However, there are times when my own emotions and good feelings would be served by making those promises to keep someone in my prayers when the recipient might rather that I keep those remarks to myself.

I can still pray for others without telling anyone that I do so and without touching them. (as mentioned in Matthew 6...But when you pray, go into your room and shut the door and pray to your Father who is in secret. And your Father who sees in secret will reward you....)

Positive things can come out of simply treating a dying person with a great deal of dignity and talking to them as if they are a not-dying person at that moment. Stay a moment longer if it seems right, give them your attention if they have something to say...those kinds of things can mean just as much or more...and, of course, privately pray for them to be comforted and at peace. If you find that it seems right afterwards, then do it.

It's not a notary thing, it's a human thing. I don't think that everyone wants to know that they are in my prayers. But, I certainly find a lot of peace in praying for them privately.

Reply by JanetK_CA on 1/23/12 5:20pm
Msg #409684

Re: Sensitivity is the key.

Brenda, I think your comments best express my opinion.

So often, it's family members or friends who contact us to make the arrangements when dealing with an imminent end-of-life situation, and it's too easy to find oneself directing conversation to them, as if they're not there. I think it's important to make sure that we respect their dignity and talk TO the person whose signature is being notarized. If they're capable of signing of their own free will, they're well enough to be treated with consideration as a whole person.

This all reminds me of a situation I ran into recently where the person who wasn't expected to make it too much longer was a woman about my own age. I got the impression that her husband and other family members who were present were also doing their best to hold it together and didn't really want to be faced with the reality of their situation at the moment - especially in front of her. To me it just wouldn't have felt right to say anything that would have brought that fact to the forefront of the proceedings.

One more point... If you're going to touch the hand of someone who is terminally ill, you'd darn well better make sure that your hands are extremely clean and as germ-free as possible. When someone has a compromised immune system, it doesn't take much to potentially put them in crisis. This applies equally to people who may not be in an imminently terminal condition, but might be currently undergoing chemo or radiation treatment or who are on anti-rejection medications. Exposure to certain things could be life-threatening. Cancer patients are taught all kinds of techniques to avoid risk while under treatment - and that includes things that the rest of us wouldn't give a second thought.


Reply by GOLDGIRL/CA on 1/22/12 6:03pm
Msg #409620

I think your instinct is great - yes, we're there to do a job, but on the other hand we should be relating to our signers in a personal way, too, if they are receptive ... and they usuallly are.

However, for me, I'd leave the "prayer" part out of it, including asking if it were OK to put them in your prayers. What if they don't want you to? What if they're not prayer people? Then they have to fumble around for an answer. Besides, having someone ask if they can put someone else in their prayers seems to emphasize what a sad situation they're in and draws attention to their plight. I guess what I'm saying is we should not be bringing religion into our jobs. That's why I always do the affirmation for the oath. Don't want to offend anybody. So for me, I'd spend extra time listening to them or talking with them, whatever they seemed receptive to. I visited a terminally ill woman three times after I notarized her sig. We had wonderful conversations before she passed away.

Reply by HisHughness on 1/22/12 8:14pm
Msg #409624

Non-prayer people

***I'd leave the "prayer" part out of it, including asking if it were OK to put them in your prayers. What if they don't want you to? What if they're not prayer people?***

As an agnostic, I am not a prayer person. I do not believe it is effective. I don't argue the point with those who do have faith in such entreaties, unless they want to debate it. But I never object to, and in fact welcome, anyone saying they will pray for a beneficial end to any trouble I am experiencing. They are showing concern for my welfare in the framework that means to the most to them, and I am grateful for that.

When I do object to people saying they will pray for me is when they do so from some perceived point of moral superiority: They will pray that I will be "enlightened"; they'll pray that I'll give up loose women (well, I have to concede that prayer has certainly been answered); they'll pray that I will finally see the efficacy of prayer. That I find rude, arrogant, and narrow-minded.

Reply by Stamper_WI on 1/22/12 6:49pm
Msg #409622

I work part time in an assisted living facility. For the most part, they are very independent with some still having their cars and responsible for their own care. But what seems to happen is sudden events that plummet them into the need for a nursing home or hospitalization. It's often a fearfull time even though they are aware of the eventuality of it. Cold efficiency is often contibuting to the fear of the time they are going through. The other night, I had to let a man know his wife had died. I had never met him before. It was not an easy thing but he was grateful for the way I handled it.
Acknowledgement of their humanity while they are still here is essential. My opinion.

Reply by Susan Fischer on 1/22/12 10:49pm
Msg #409633

So good to hear your [cyber]voice again, Zana.

You and Hugh have punctuated the sentiments of the OP and complimented the responses so beautifully.

Hoping all is well in your busybusy world.


Reply by Karla/OR on 1/23/12 1:07am
Msg #409638

Sincere thanks to everyone who responded for your n/m

Reply by Karla/OR on 1/23/12 1:09am
Msg #409639

Sorry hit the Post button too soon . . .

Sincere thanks to everyone for your support, openness, and food for thought. Have a good week everyone.

Reply by FeliseSoCal on 1/23/12 2:41pm
Msg #409676

I think it's great. I have been humbled by many appts at healthcare facilities.


 
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