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When borrowers cancel
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When borrowers cancel
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Posted by pat/WA on 1/30/12 7:44pm
Msg #410311

When borrowers cancel

When borrowers cancel at the table signing services pay 50%.
We are not allowed to give borrowers any advice but are penalized if they cancel. Where is the logic in that??

Reply by MW/VA on 1/30/12 7:49pm
Msg #410312

When the borrowers cancel no one gets paid. Some tc's will pay a full fee anyway, but they're absorbing the expense. Otherwise, there's no funds to be disbursed.

Reply by Treasure Valley Notary - Tina on 1/30/12 8:53pm
Msg #410316

Two Different Thoughts

When our office is hired directly through a title company / lender and they pay my full service fee of at least $150 to $200 (before travel costs, if any), then I am willing to risk not being paid if it does not close. Even if I am the one doing the printing.

BUT if I am hired through a SS and they pay me less than my full service fee, I don't take the risk and they do. If it doesn't close, I still get paid, and preferably the full signing fee that we agreed to, and not a reduced rate (I must agree to the reduced rate up front, and not find out on the back end). I figure that if they want a cut of the "pie" then they have to assume the risk involved. Otherwise what are they doing with the bite they take out of the fee - a phone call or two? (I know some areas are easier to get coverage in than others).

It is hard enough to make a living at the rates that are being "offered." The borrowers are still being charged the same amount, if not more, than they use to be. They don't get a discount. But we are being asked (sometimes told) to take less of a fee. Then I don't take the responsibility.

Just my 2 cents. Just in this month alone I've had to replace one of our laser printers, make car repairs, order more business cards, etc. There are costs to doing business and that fee needs to cover more than a few dollars in my pocket. When a company wants to pay me an employee price, then I want employee benefits - vacation, retirement, health benefits, etc. Unfortunately, I haven't found a company to give me those perks up front. So I stay self-employed. And charge rates that I can make a living with.

Reply by Moneyman/TX on 1/30/12 10:15pm
Msg #410320

Re: Two Different Thoughts



Reply by Moneyman/TX on 1/30/12 10:44pm
Msg #410322

I realize this is ...

... supposed to be the "professional" board and some may disagree with me for posting that clip above, but that response, IMO, deserved it! I agree with everything Treasure Valley Notary said.

I also realize that being hired directly by TC, I will be one of the ones receiving payment for my services provided once the loan funds, usually Net 15. Not waiting 30-45-60.... days. OK, I don't accept any Net 60 offers, but you understand what I mean.

I also do not accept signing requests from SS companies that insist on my fees being contingent on the funding status of any loan. If I did my job, I expect full payment and within the agreed upon time frame. I haven't had one request that of me in a few years, but there might still be a few out there.

Reply by Moneyman/TX on 2/1/12 1:21am
Msg #410474

I misspoke ... not "everything"

Msg #410473

Reply by Susan Fischer on 1/30/12 11:14pm
Msg #410324

Howdy, Tina, good to see ya. Risk Management...Bingo,

fellow PotatoHead.

It's business. We small businesses invest in our educations; we don't try to re-invent wheels; we keep accurate books and budgets; [feel free to add more]; which, is how we support our families - we provide a premium comodity: High Quality Remote Closings.

Our mere physical appearance in Borrowers' homes and businesses, is so representative of the many-thousands of faceless employees involved in our face-to-face - bottom line - signing of a Contract we Present.

The Risks, as you aptly illustrate, are a bedrock element of Budget/Marketing/Cash-flow analysis in our policy decision-making.

(If you ever go out to Kuna, the Log Planet (barn-shaped with a big covered latticed porch, is on S School, S of the RR tracks. Used to have a bunch of trees, and a rail fence out front. Anyway, took a scrap of high desert and after almost 30 years sold out in 2002. My own Private Idaho.)

Reply by Sylvia_FL on 1/31/12 8:39am
Msg #410338

Re: Two Different Thoughts

Speaking as someone who had a successful SS:-
When a signing agent went out and did his/her job and the borrowers refused to sign, then the signing agent got the full pay. Not the signing agent's fault that the loan wasn't what the borrowers were expecting.
I had an agreement with the title companies that used my SS that if the borrowers didn't sign for any reason then the title company would pay me just what I was paying the signing agent. In those cases it was usually a few weeks before I would get the fee from the title company- but I still put the check in the mail to the signing agent the day after the signing.

There is no reason that the signing agent should not get full pay when they have fulfilled their obligation to the SS or title company.
When called for a signing make it clear to the SS or title company that your fee is not contingent on whether the borrowers sign or not, or whether the loan funds or not.


Reply by jojo_MN on 1/31/12 9:18am
Msg #410343

Very well said, Sylvia.

From what I've heard from others on this board over the years, you were one of, if not the best, SS out there!!


Reply by Moneyman/TX on 2/1/12 1:12am
Msg #410473

Thank you Sylvia for helping me to see what I missed.

It seems that while originally reading TVN's post I misread some of the first paragraph. And by that, I mean the misunderstanding was totally my fault and not on TNV's communication skills.

Somehow I overlooked the fact that she was saying that not being paid if the loan does not fund *is* an acceptable, and possibly even an expected, outcome as long as it was the TC that hired them directly and paying her full service fees. Of course if that were the outcome, would they really be "paying full service fees" or just offering to pay them as long as someone or something out of the TVN's ability to control didn't kill the deal?

I have always agreed with you that once SA services have been provided, payment is due regardless of who the hiring party is or what the fee charged is.

If I had a really good TC client that I had a great (and profitable) working relationship with and they asked me, I might decide to "let one (1) go" depending on the situation and the profitability of the relationship up to that point. However, that would be my choice to offer that to them or not, not theirs to assume would automatically be the "norm".

Other than that, I did agreed with the rest of the post.

Reply by LKT/CA on 1/30/12 10:13pm
Msg #410319

If borrowers cancel at the table, it's typically when the critical docs are presented - I call them the "fab 5". 50% of the agreed fee covers printing, travel and "some" time at the table. So how are NSAs *penalized*?

Reply by JulieD/KS on 1/31/12 6:42am
Msg #410328

Seriously, LKT?

How are we penalized? Seriously? I did my work, followed through with BO contact & preparation, printed docs, put on my pantyhose, fired up my 6 cylinders, go to wherever I'm supposed to go, get all settled with my pens, loan package, notary stamp, notary journal and start conducting the signing.....

But, because someone at the loan company skewed the terms or changed the interest rate or did something wrong that causes the BO to take step back...I should lose out on the pay that I was promised? I'm still out of almost the same amount of time that I would have been if they followed through, but now am expected to accept 1/2 pay for something that isn't my fault? If FedEx gets paid and the appraiser gets paid, then the notary should be paid. In full.

The only time I will accept less than full fee is if I show up and the BO is not home. I will accept a travel + print fee. If I walk in, sit down, and begin the signing, at that point, I expect (and demand) full fee.
<off my soap box>

Reply by Lee/AR on 1/31/12 7:27am
Msg #410332

Agree.

1/2 fee just doesn't work for me, either.

Reply by jba/fl on 1/31/12 9:18am
Msg #410344

Same here. n/m

Reply by ikando on 1/31/12 7:41am
Msg #410333

So, LKT, if I understand where you're coming from, it's alright with you who have trekked out from your base in your vehicle after printing a 1/2 ream of paper's worth of documents, arriving at a destination that may or may not have been easy to get to, holding your nose and/or climbing over all manner of obstacles to get to a place where you can juggle your book and the documents so that everyone is ready to sign, only to have the borrower say, "no way", pack up your equipment, trek back home, then accept only half of what you agreed to receive from an SS who picked up the phone to allow you that joyous opportunity?

I'm sorry. Not me. The printing and getting is the majority of the work.

Reply by jba/fl on 1/31/12 9:21am
Msg #410345

"that joyous opportunity?"

I love your phrasing - I use this a lot already. LOL

Reply by jojo_MN on 1/31/12 9:31am
Msg #410346

Sorry, can't agree with you on this one LKT. I did my work, I get full pay. Period.

How many times do you turn down other appointments (losing prospective income), waste time waiting for documents, print documents (toner, paper, and all other costs associated with printing), drive to and from the customer's house (gas is not free) and spend one or two hours at a borrowers home (while they are on the phone with loan officer, if lucky enough to have someone answering the phone on the other end) just to cancel the loan? You did your job. You should get paid.

If anything, you should get paid MORE if it is cancelled due to the additional time and expense of shredding the documents (original and borrowers copy).

Reply by BossLadyMD on 1/31/12 1:12pm
Msg #410369

If a borrower cancels or refuses to sign, I get my full fee. n/m


 
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