Posted by Calnotary on 1/19/12 10:46pm
Msg #409501
When to staple the document
January's Notary News says:
The certificate of acknowledgment must
be endorsed on or stapled to the
instrument. Taping or paper-clipping the
certificate of acknowledgment to the
document is not permitted.
Does that means that If I notarize a GD(2 page doc) First page has all the wording with the borrowers signature, second page has only the notary certificate so that 2nd page document has to be stapled, correct?
What about in a DOT that has 15 pages 14th page has the borrowers signature and the last page has ONLY the notary certificate. Does 14th and 15th page needs to be stapled? Or the 15 pages needs to be stapled ?
| Reply by Shoshana/AZ on 1/19/12 10:59pm
Msg #409502
In my opinion the notarial cert needs to be stapled to the signature page. As was stated previously, the TCs are going to love this one! Now, does that mean that if I ( an AZ notary)am notarizing a sig on a DOT for a CA property, that I have to do the stapling?
| Reply by Susan Fischer on 1/19/12 11:06pm
Msg #409505
Standard Operating Procedure (SOP) in Oregon. "Attached" is
in black-letter law here.
| Reply by Don Courtney on 1/19/12 11:23pm
Msg #409508
Wonder what the County Recorders will think...
They need to scan the docs into public records.
| Reply by Susan Fischer on 1/20/12 10:35am
Msg #409523
It's part of the job and assures that *that* document
has the necessary Notarial cert.
What's your point, Don?
| Reply by Marian_in_CA on 1/19/12 11:31pm
Msg #409509
It's just my interpretation here... but I take the stapling edict to refer to times when we have to use a loose certificate to comply with missing or non-compliant verbiage. We all know that this is a common problem for CA notaries. It's been over 4 years now and people still haven't updated their software. Although, to be honest... a lot of people don't realize that there may be statutory wording, or think that it doesn't apply to them. I'd far rather people just leave it off completely then try to be helpful and get it wrong.
In those large DOTs, for example, they are usually clearly a page in a larger document. To be safe, though, I'm going to just go ahead and staple everything. I honestly don't care what the TCs think. I care what the SOS says.
I've already written up a draft of a slip of paper that I will include (probably paper-clipped) with a document to those who usually insist on no staples. I'll probably refine this some more:
------------
Stapling of notarial certificates is done in compliance with the California Secretary of State’s instruction to Notaries Public that “The certificate … must be endorsed on or stapled to the instrument. Taping or paper-clipping…to the document is not permitted.”
Because this document lacked a notarial certificate or the supplied notarial certificate did not comply with California statute, endorsing on the instrument is not possible. Therefore, an additional sheet was needed and was stapled as required by the State of California.
For more information regarding this requirement, see the January 2012 Notary News, published by the California Secretary of State, pages 2 and 4. http://www.sos.ca.gov/business/notary/forms/notary-newsletter-2012.pdf
If you wish to avoid the need for staples in the future, please refer to the proper notarial certificate wording for notarizations performed in California available at: http://www.sos.ca.gov/business/notary
---------------
The idea for that (as with the stamps) is to keep put the blame for their frustration where it belongs, not on me. If they start getting uppity with me about state rules asking me to bend them when I've told them I cant... I'm always happy to point out good 'ole Gov't Code 8225 that says that knowingly asking a CA notary to do something illegal is a crime. Shuts 'em up every time.
I've noted this before, but one of the things that helps me a lot when I have to attach loose certs is not to just write "See attached" -- that often ticks people off because there is often to reason given as to why. I use one of two stamps that include the statute that they can look up:
http://www.highdesertnotary.com/images/attachstamps.jpg
| Reply by LKT/CA on 1/20/12 6:54am
Msg #409518
Great post, Marian
I agree with you. In essence, my post 409485 mirrors your interpretation - but you stated your thoughts little better and clearer than I did..
For multi-page docs - with page 15 of 15 being just the notarial cert, I believe that falls within "endorsing on" the instrument since the notarial cert, though alone - is part of AND completes the doc as it is numbered along with the rest of the pages, therefore not requiring a staple. However, it can't hurt to staple the cert to the signature page - or staple all 15 pages together.
<<<I honestly don't care what the TCs think. I care what the SOS says.>>>
Me too !
| Reply by Stephanie Santiago on 1/20/12 11:27am
Msg #409531
Thank you, Marian for your post. n/m
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