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A situation that is not addressed by the SPW
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A situation that is not addressed by the SPW
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Posted by BrendaTx on 11/15/13 1:30am
Msg #492856

A situation that is not addressed by the SPW

I know that this is something that signing agents from states that allow only low notary fees ($.50-$2.00, for example) do not like to ponder, but this scenario is meaningful.

Many title companies and lenders have leaned toward sending packages off to a borrower with instructions to find his or her own notary.

In fact, I believe that Wells Fargo (an SPW member) may be one of them.

Wonder how this scenario will work when a borrower hires his or her own notary public? The notary is not under the lender or title company in this case and, therefore, would not require a test or training.

I might be looking at this wrong, but I believe that the fact that this is (apparently) fine to do makes a significant statement that the CSS designation is not quite as far reaching as it appears to be.

I also wonder if the SPW will suggest that lenders and title companies cease this practice.

It is something to think about.

Thoughts?


Reply by BrendaTx on 11/15/13 1:39am
Msg #492857

Shoud have added . . .

The notary is not under the lender or title company in this case and, therefore, would not require a BACKGROUND CHECK, test, or training.

Reply by PJM/MI on 11/15/13 4:31am
Msg #492862

Re: Shoud have added . . .

Good point! I have had 3 such calls this past week.

Reply by BobbiCT on 11/15/13 7:04am
Msg #492866

Find a Notary PUBLIC, not an NSA or CSS ....

I actually LOVE these, although you cannot make a living from them.

CT statutory fee, at my convenience and just documents that require notarization. Since I am ONLY acting as a Public Official commissioned by my state, only my state laws and commission office requirements apply.

Brenda, You are right. For DIY sent to borrower loans, this is a much simplier and most more cost effective way for lenders and title insurance companies to do business. Better experience for the few borrowers I have spoken with: Loan officer reviews package over telephone, borrower signs EXCEPT documents requiring notarization, which are reviewed by loan officer. Borrowers with "notarize post-it" documents in hand find a notary and JUST SIGN ... they've already gone through everything and I don't even see the loan package or any NPI Smile Way easy and no memberships, NSA, CSS, BGC or other acronyms needed.

Of course, some of these are done for free by co-worker notaries, town office notaries, senior citizen center notaries. Old school: We are PUBLIC officials commissioned to serve the PUBLIC, not under the thumbs of mortgage lenders.

Reply by Robert522TX on 11/15/13 6:50am
Msg #492865

I actually had a call like this a week or two ago. I quoted him a price of $120, based on location distance and number of notarizations, and he became unglued and said I must be crazy, and he would find someone who wanted the work at a realistic price.

Reply by Larry/IL on 11/15/13 8:09am
Msg #492869

GNW, nothing more

Borrowers usually call me stating they are having a hard time finding a Notary that will Notarize their loan documents. This is stated almost every time I get a call or when I am notarizing their documents. Bank & currency exchange notaries will not touch loan documents in my area.

Most times these mail away refinances are only 8-15 notarizations and under a 10 mile trip. I usually quote $50 - $65 unless they are EOM or have special circumstances. During the phone call, I inquire about valid ID(s). I explain that we will need a cleaned flat surface, (with chairs) and that any document requiring a Ack / Jurat be pulled out and ready. I do not look through the package, I do not comment about any document, I do not even inquire about ink color unless the borrower brings it up!

It' is nothing more than GNW and that's exactly how I treat it. I am not a NSA in this capacity, I am not the document police, an extra set of eyes and not even their sometimes only real quality control, heading off obvious issues before executing the documents.

Usually $50-$65, in & out, 10 minutes average, short travel times, no instructions, no hand holding, no faxing, no completion reports, no invoicing and best of all no waiting to be paid! I'll take all of them I can get. I average about 3 per month and wish I could do 50.

If these mail away orders disappear, they probably be funneled through the largest signing service we NSAs will ever know, (the nna), when and if they get control of scheduling notaries for work because of these self professed essential standards created by their not so noatry friendly SPW.

Reply by Lee/AR on 11/15/13 7:08am
Msg #492867

I think the difference is who hired the notary. In situation you mentioned--it's the B--who is not under CFPB regs.

Reply by BrendaTx on 11/15/13 1:03pm
Msg #492924

That is my point, Lee/AR.

Notaries are not required to be CSSs in order to notarize documents related to loan packages.

It's hard to get that from reading the info at the SPW website.

Reply by 101livescan on 11/15/13 9:14am
Msg #492881

What a convenient way to avoid CFPB compliance mandates!

And, if a signature/stamp is missing on a critical document, docs get returned to lender, and have to be resigned/stamped in order to close, delaying funding, recording, rate lock protection.

Emmm. This scenario presents itself to me no less than half dozen times a month. Mostly out of state properties being refi'd.

Reply by Pamela/CA on 11/15/13 11:14am
Msg #492908

Re: BO's instructed to take docs to UPS......

.... I cannot count the times I've dropped docs and watched a loan package mangled by BO's as they sign in front of the on-site Notary Public...asking a question on the TIL or HUD only to get a blank stare.... I admit one time I felt so bad for these two elderly ladies, I was wearing my SA Badge and dressed in a suit, heels with my briefcase and 5 pkgs going back to TRG - the very same TC on their Wells loan pkg they were trying to decipher.... I took a deep breath for my E&O Ins. and plunged in quickly pointing out the features of the TIL... they quickly tried to get me to go thru the Note and Hud of course, but I made my apologies and abandoned them! I know, guys, I took a risk.... but I see these loans at Kinko's (FedEx) and UPS stops ALL the time... maybe I should set up a desk outside one of the busier places in San Francisco or San Jose!

Reply by JanelWI on 11/15/13 11:27am
Msg #492912

Brenda:

As usual, great point and you are exactly right! I just had one of these last night. However, since this property was in a rural area, UPS could not deliver the documents in time for the borrowers to take their loan docs to a bank for notarization. Anyway...a signing service calls me desperately to go get this loan signed. I called the borrower to confirm and she was very concerned about having to take another lender's paperwork to their local bank just to find a notary to notarize their mortgage and affidavits in this package. She was also very concerned about signing it properly. She said the package seemed complicated and she just was not sure about having me come because, in her words, "What does a notary know about signing my loan?"

That is when I told her she was in good hands...the notary public commission is my tool; but I happen to be a certified professional document signing agent. We are trained, while I can't discuss the terms under which your transaction was negotiated; I certainly can navigate you through and show you where to find the information you are asking about. I went over the usual prepping before an appointment and went from there.

The borrowers, were to say the least, very grateful that I came at such a late hour to help them through this. This is the aspect of customer service and knowledge of the mortgage industry in terms of what we do... that the lenders, some title companies and most signing services fall very short on. They say we as signing agents are vitally important....but their less than stellar attempt at stroking our egos falls on deaf ears every time a situation like this comes up and they relegate our entire existence/worth to the act of notarizing a few documents in a loan package.

For me, in terms of the SPW, I believe this is the beginning of the end of this industry as we know it. It is a shame because we have barely had a chance to breath or establish our own real validity and voice. Those who do not do this work seem to have an opinion from borrower up to lender on what we are worth or not worth. No matter what they do about information security it really has very little to do with recognizing us as a vital aspect of this industry. They may try to sell it to us under that guise; but when the dust settles, the tit for tat on fees will remain until they drop so low, many of us will have to say goodbye to a very important part of our lives unless we evolve and find other sources of income to support our business.

It will always come down to profit margin and control. We have no more value than that to them, we never really did.





Reply by JanetK_CA on 11/15/13 11:41pm
Msg #493012

Excellent post, Janel! I think this sentence beautifully covers the essence of what we do - and our value to the signers, and therefore the lenders and settlement agents:

"I certainly can navigate you through and show you where to find the information you are asking about."

With all the excruciating instructions and threats to dock pay, it seems apparent that accuracy is important to all those parties. If notaries who have some training and maybe a little bit of experience are making so many mistakes, how do they expect the borrowers to catch all the signatures and initials? Smart business people realize that when business volume is down or competition is up, customer service becomes more and more important.

Oh wait... I guess they figure low costs trumps all! That does seem to be the overwhelmingly popular plan for hiring parties, these days. They've probably done the risk analysis and figured they can get away with it. It'll be interesting to see who the survivors are in the long run. (For my part, I'm working at not having all my eggs in one basket.)



Reply by VT_Syrup on 11/15/13 11:55am
Msg #492917

If a lender or title company wants the signer to find his/her own notary, there is a simple way for them to prevent the notary from having access to much personal information. Only require acknowledgement of the deed. I don't think any of those other notarizations are essential. The deed will become a public record anyway when it is recorded, so it isn't really personal information.

Reply by BrendaTx on 11/15/13 12:55pm
Msg #492920

The ez way to do those "mail away" packages

My friend has a walk up counter for notary work in her pack/ship store.

Have the client(s) pull all the documents that need notarizing to the top. Notarize. Collect money.

In Texas, that is about 8-10 @ an avg of $6 each - $48 to $60 - plus a travel fee of $25 to $35 in town = $73 - $95 for swinging by and notarizing a few documents. It's nice work on a Saturday afternoon. Pay me with cash or credit card. Good-bye.

This works for other venues, too. I did one in a Golden Corral amidst the chicken fried steaks, cream gravy, chocolate icing, and banana pudding bowls.

I realize that this is not profitable in states that allow only low fees for notarizing. In California, Florida, Oregon, etc. it's still good money, even with less certificates to complete.

Reply by NVLSlady/VA on 11/15/13 4:44pm
Msg #492953

Preventing the notary from having access . . .

to much personal info.

Funny, I couldn't believe when I read this in the "code": 6.3. Scrutiny of Documents
The Certified Signing Specialist will not inspect or examine the closing documents beyond what is needed to determine the requirements and conditions for the assignment and to complete any journal entries for notarizations on the documents.

(Let the signer have her say! 12 USC Section 2608 Title Companies)

Reply by SharonMN on 11/15/13 12:59pm
Msg #492923

Well, in that case there would be no signing agent services provided and no need for a CSS. It would be general notary work and the lender would be relying on the borrower to make sure everything else in the package got signed and completed corrected (and returned timely).



Reply by BrendaTx on 11/15/13 1:08pm
Msg #492925

You just said what I meant. As it stands, lenders are not required to use a CSS. It's just a suggestion.



Reply by NVLSlady/VA on 11/15/13 4:53pm
Msg #492954

And frankly, the regulatory agency for the notary

closer (I know some don't like this word) should be each state's title assoc.

Now, I KNOW I'm going out on a limb here since in VA some tc's want the Title License!


 
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