Posted by PJM/MI on 11/3/13 4:57am
Msg #491076
Complying with the new regulatoins
If you worked for a company and your boss came to you and told you that you had to jump thru some more hoops, would you do it or walk out the door? If you walk out the door, there is someone else who will gladly jump thru the hoops. No matter how stupid those hoops may seem.
| Reply by FGX/NJ on 11/3/13 5:30am
Msg #491077
These are not regulations n/m
| Reply by CarolF/NC on 11/3/13 8:25am
Msg #491085
No They Are NOT and how is this new classification being
pushed different from the current Certified Signing Agent designation that most do not have and still get work.
| Reply by Larry/IL on 11/3/13 7:39am
Msg #491080
Employee vs Self Employed, calling an IRS Enrolled Agent
Pam, if you worked for a company, you'd be an employee, not a self employed independent contractor. Independent being the key word here. Also if you were an employee, half your FICA taxes would be paid for you, by your employer. You might also see other employee perks such as employer sponsored insurance plans as well as retirement plans. That might be a trade off some would consider for losing control of their freedoms. To some, their freedoms are more important than certain perks or even money!
I am not sure, but I have been wondering if what is being proposed could in anyway be considered controlling enough that we might fall into the category of an employee. It may be a bit premature to make those assumptions till any of these proposals have actually been put into place. I have to believe that someone actually telling me what to say and how to say it does cross this line. I wonder what effect it might have if a few thousand NSAs wrote lenders letters, saying they were going to be challenging employee status depending on how much control is being required in the future. I have to wonder if it would put the brakes on some of these proposals as some lenders might voice concerns to the title companies they are using.?
Enrolled agent status is the highest credential the IRS awards, (from the IRS site). I know there are a few IRS Enrolled Agents on this board that might be able or willing to shed some light on this subject. perhaps share with the rest of the NSAs their very valuable opinions.
| Reply by sueharke on 11/3/13 10:41am
Msg #491090
Re: Employee vs Self Employed, calling an IRS Enrolled Agent
I have talked about these issues on this forum in the past. You might find my prior posts useful.
| Reply by Linda_H/FL on 11/3/13 7:46am
Msg #491081
I agree - these are not regulations...
This is a group that got together and imposed their will on lenders - somehow. They are not "regulations"
I think these new "stipulations"? if you will - would be far better accepted by all if a certain organization's stamp was not all over everything associated with them.
| Reply by walthtz on 11/3/13 8:15am
Msg #491084
These are are NOT regulations; This is a dictatorship; dammed if you do & dammed is you don't! All our information in the hands of whoever to what they want with it, with us having NO say on what or where that information turns up. And if we turn this info over to them, including our Social Security Numbers? What's next, if you don't have a high enough credit score, you are locked out of work? Where does it stop?
Maybe now we need ID theft insurance too? oops , another insurance bill? How are we supposed to protect ourselves & our loved ones?
Just another view.......
| Reply by Marian_in_CA on 11/3/13 11:03am
Msg #491100
Pamela, tow MAJOR problems with your thinking here...
While idea has it's merits, and is, more or less true under that basic business concept of supply and demand... you have to remember as the others have said:
#1: These are NOT new regulations. They are a set of "rules" that a small group of people who have a strong presence got together and "decided" on some arbitrary standard. Let me explain in an example. I used to liv ein Brazil. When I first arrived and was just learning Portuguese, I often had dinner with people who enjoyed teaching me new vocabulary. On one of the first nights I was there I was at a home of somebody who I trusted a great deal and had an important leadership role. They handed me this wonderful tasting soda pop and proceeded to teach me its' name - Cachaça. I did not know any better, and I trusted these people, so, I just assumed what they said was the truth. After all, they were teaching all kinds of new vocabulary, right? Well, for about a week after that, I would ask for Cachaça, thinking and meaning I meant that soda. I would get giggled at or looked at strangely and I thought it was maybe because I was mispronouncing it. Nope. Turns out that the real name of the soda was Guarana and what I was asking for was an alcoholic drink, which is kind of the Brazilian version of rum. I was mortified because I don't drink alcohol. It was just a practical joke, as I learned... a joke they play on all the new Americans.
The point is... saying something doesn't always make it true. You can be misled by people in authority, and their intentions may be honorable or humorous, but they might also be selfish and self serving and developed to intentionally mislead you. So, no..these are NOT new regulations.
#2: These companies are NOT our bosses. Most notaries in the loan signing industry (if not nearly all) are independent contractors, individual business owners. They are NOT employees and are not subject the will of a "boss" - we are our own bosses. One of the biggest problems our industry has is that notaries don't know how to run a business. They assume and act as if they are employees of these companies without any of the protections and benefits of being an employee. By "benefits" I'm not referring to health care or paid time off and such - but more basic items that employees don't realize or overlook such as paying for equipment and supplies, coverage under worker's compensation insurance and the employer paying half of their social security taxes, among plenty of state specific employee protection rules. Having an employee is expensive, bu tin return the company gets to exercise a lot of behavioral control. That's the point of having an employee.
But we are NOT employees. We are independent contractors. We have to take on the burden of paying for our own insurance coverage, expenses, supplies, self employment taxes, etc. We take on that duty and expense that the employer has... which means the behavior control privilege ALSO shifts to US... not to them. Federal law is very clear on this:
"... an individual is an independent contractor if the payer has the right to control or direct only the result of the work and not what will be done and how it will be done.... You are not an independent contractor if you perform services that can be controlled by an employer (what will be done and how it will be done). This applies even if you are given freedom of action. What matters is that the employer has the legal right to control the details of how the services are performed."
Source: http://www.irs.gov/Businesses/Small-Businesses-%26-Self-Employed/Independent-Contractor-Defined
The groups that want to require training and control over every specific detail of how a notary performs a service (such as through the use of a script, among other things) are trying to control you as they would an EMPLOYEE. They want the benefits of behavior control as well as paying people and avoiding the expenses involved with independent contractors. They can't do that. They can only have one or the other, not both.
| Reply by KimmyMD on 11/3/13 4:30pm
Msg #491134
Re: Pamela, tow MAJOR problems with your thinking here...
You nailed it. I had a TC tell me I was not permitted to leave my business card after a closing.
| Reply by MW/VA on 11/3/13 11:50am
Msg #491110
If you'd read through some of the recent threads, you will
realize that many of us are not jumping or running scared because of this. It's so typical of XYZ's tactics to make it sound like these are "regulations", but they definitely are not!!!! ;-(
| Reply by PJM/MI on 11/3/13 12:05pm
Msg #491113
Missed my point ..
Or maybe I wasn't clear in my post. Yes, I know were are all our own "business" (I have been performing closings since 1999). The point I was TRYING to make is that if WE want to stay in this business, we will HAVE to comply, and if we don't like it, time to find something else to do. I am NOT happy with the changes, nor am I a "fan" of XYZ, but all of complaining is NOT going to change what is going to happen. It's this simple: if you don't want to comply, then don't.
| Reply by Marian_in_CA on 11/3/13 12:22pm
Msg #491114
Re: Missed my point ..
But the point is... comply with WHAT? There's nothing to comply with but an arbitrary set of "standards" put together by TWO groups - the NNA and FAMS. Plus some of these "standards" are clear violations of federal rules.
Just because FAMS and NNA say it's so doesn't make it so. People are listening to them because people give them power to make the decisions. By complying with their "standards" you give them power and validate it.
| Reply by Sha/CA on 11/3/13 12:57pm
Msg #491119
Sit, stay, roll-over. ;-) n/m
| Reply by John Tennant on 11/3/13 1:01pm
Msg #491120
Re: Missed my point ..
Sorry Pamela, I disagree. I have had my own business for over 20 years. I will stay in this business and I will not "comply" with SPW or XYZ. I don't have to because my clients know my work. The quality exceeds what these two organizations are "spewing". The majority of NSA's that have been successful will continue on, just like me. They are not running scared. Those that comply could easily find problems with IRS. JMHO
| Reply by MW/VA on 11/3/13 1:47pm
Msg #491123
That's exactly what they're counting on. I did all that
when I started up more than 7 years ago. I thought I needed to do that to get the icon & be competitive in the marketplace. I have since come to know what that org. is about, and I won't give them any more money.
I've posted about it before, my bgc had got messed up & I was awarded $1000 in a class action suit. What does that tell you about trust or their credibility?
Yes, I know that they've built themselves up to be a very powerful organization. I'm not going to assist with that.
| Reply by ajm2 on 11/3/13 1:57pm
Msg #491127
Re: Complying with the new regulatoins to get reduced fees
So Lets see The Standards are comprised of five elements:
The Certified Signing Specialist Code of Conduct
Standardized signing script
Annual examination
Annual background screening
Notary errors and omissions insurance
The heart of the Standards is the Certified Signing Specialist Code of Conduct. The Code of Conduct is organized into 10 Guiding Principles encompassing more than 100 individual Standards of Practice. They cover everything from protecting signers’ privacy and acting in a professional manner to not providing unauthorized advice or services and reporting illegal or suspicious activity. To obtain and maintain the Certified Signing Specialist designation, you will be required to sign an acknowledgment stating that you will abide by the Code of Conduct’s Standards of Practice.
With all these requirements the fees will be lowered for the professional lol
yet no standards are set for the payment or standards for the Title company's or signing services lol
| Reply by Linda_H/FL on 11/3/13 2:22pm
Msg #491129
Yes..ajm...and keep in mind
"The heart of the Standards is the Certified Signing Specialist Code of Conduct. The Code of Conduct is organized into 10 Guiding Principles encompassing more than 100 individual Standards of Practice. They cover everything from protecting signers’ privacy and acting in a professional manner to not providing unauthorized advice or services and reporting illegal or suspicious activity. To obtain and maintain the Certified Signing Specialist designation, you will be required to sign an acknowledgment stating that you will abide by the Code of Conduct’s Standards of Practice."
All of the above, ironically, will be established and overseen by...guess who? Yep...NNA - the self-appointed end-all, be-all of notaries nationwide.
So sorry I renewed my membership....this will be the last year.
| Reply by leeinla on 11/3/13 4:41pm
Msg #491136
Re: You all need to calm down and relax.
XYZ was sued previously over its background check policy. These are standards, not regulations.
These standards might back fire because they are being introduced to new notaries that don't know any better, and probably never heard of Notary Rotary. There are plenty of escrow officers out there that know that the certification game does not mean anything. The reason this can back fire is that XYZ does not guarantee that this compliance will establish qualified signing agents. It is more clever marketing by XWZ to the major players in the industry to assure them they will get better notaries.
If this fails, who is the fool here? Also, I would not be surprised if this arbitrary standard will be revised because of a threat of a lawsuit or actual litigation.
Some of you that know the compliance officers at FNF or First American Title should talk to them and explain to them that this organization does not represent all notaries and explain to them the damage that XYZ has done to the industry in last decade.
We should get together with independent escrow associations and get their input on the matter.
Time will tell.......
| Reply by MikeC/TX on 11/3/13 8:18pm
Msg #491158
Regulations designed by groups that have no authority
are neither regulations nor standards - they're suggestions. They can call them whatever they want to call them, but basically it comes down to "we would like things to be done this way".
In the short term, you MIGHT have to comply with some of this nonsense because, unfortunately, hiring parties are buying into it. Why not? It is designed to favor them at the expense of the notary. Which is interesting, since it's being spearheaded by an organization that claims to support notaries. Think about that when it is time to renew your membership.
In the long term, it won't stand. Just as what happened with the video notary sites and the company that tried to set itself up as the sole vetting source for NSAs, as soon as the states start getting wind of this, it will be shut down.
| Reply by MW/VA on 11/3/13 9:39pm
Msg #491163
As I see it, the ss will buy into this because it appears to
make them more credible. It doesn't cost them anything, after all. It really burns me that XYZ pushes this kind of cr#p!!!! I've found them lacking in credibility many, many times.
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