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Deathbed Notary
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Deathbed Notary
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Posted by TacomaBoy on 11/1/13 11:54am
Msg #490864

Deathbed Notary

Well, I've been signing dox for a long time and have experienced deathbed notary requests a few times; it's a very uncomfortable situation when it occurs. I declined to take a signing request from a gentleman to notarize his mother's will while she lay dying in a rest home.

The part where I must confirm the signature as being a free act while under no duress or compulsion to sign keeps rattling around in my head and makes me very uncomfortable.

Under such circumstances, I believe notarizing documents should not be undertaken unless it's under the close scrutiny and supervision of the family's attorney. Coming to this conclusion was difficult for me because I feel compassion for people in need and wanted to help. Any thoughts?

Reply by Ilene C. Seidel on 11/1/13 12:16pm
Msg #490870

I've had these requests and have tried to help out. One gentleman was riddled with cancer and was going to pass on in a matter of days, but coherent I talked to him for a while to make sure he knew what he was doing. He was clear and concise, under duress perhaps. The man was dying and wanted to make sure his loved ones got what he wanted them to have after he left this earth. And even more duress if he couldn't find a Notary to complete his wishes? It's really up to you whether you can handle the sadness in the room.

Reply by Ilene C. Seidel on 11/1/13 12:17pm
Msg #490871

Am I scared damn right, not knowing what to expect. However I feel good that I've helped some poor sole leave this earth in peace.

Reply by Doris_CO on 11/1/13 12:21pm
Msg #490872

Mine was a mother who had just a few weeks or days to live and wanted to make sure her daughter was taken care of after her death. Heartbreaking but so needed.

Reply by ikando on 11/1/13 1:07pm
Msg #490876

I've done several over the years--usually in the hospital. I've discovered that the nurses and caregivers can be valuable sources as to the situation. Even though I may be able to carry on a conversation and feel the signer understands the documents, asking the staff questions about the patient can be revealing. And sometimes you can get a vibe from the staff that they are not comfortable about the situation.

Over the years I've had to turn down two people, both of them because the person pushing for the signing appeared to not be acting in the best interests of the party signing based on comments made by the staff.

That's the way I handle it. I also speak to the family about getting their own affairs in order so they don't have a similar last minute situation. Sometimes it makes a difference. Most times not. It's always sad, though.




Reply by janCA on 11/1/13 1:16pm
Msg #490880

I've had many, but a few stand out.

One was a man in bed who literally was knocking on death's door. His wife had requested I come notarize his signature on a POA. I asked if he was coherent and knew what he was signing. She said, yes. When I walked into the room, I was stunned. Not only did he not realize what was going on, but the wife had to lift him up from his pillow. He was absolutely in no condition, physically or mentally to be signing a POA. The wife was afraid the former wife was going to come after some of the estate. I told her to contact an attorney immediately.

The next one was for a trust to be conducted in the hospital, cardiac unit. The husband called and said that his attorney had drawn up a trust and that his wife was not doing very well, was in the hospital, and they were both going to sign the trust there.

When I arrived, the three children and the husband were in the room. This woman was dying. I felt like I was intruding on something very private. I spoke with her, introduced myself, she shook my hand, and I asked her if she knew what she was signing. She shook her head yes. So in between her putting the oxygen mask on herself about every five mins. and signing the documents she needed to sign, we got through it.

They were all very grateful. I felt good about that and knew I had done the right thing.

I saw about a week later in the newspaper that she had died later that day.

We all have to go with our gut feeling as to what we should do in these situations. I have turned down more than I have actually signed. It's usually a family member calling, and you have to go on their word that the principal is able and willing to sign, until you get there and are able to judge for yourself.

Reply by ikando on 11/1/13 1:24pm
Msg #490881

Yes, Jan, I agree.

One thing about POAs, in case you're unaware, they only stay in effect as long as the signer is living. The purpose is to allow someone to handle their affairs when they are physically or mentally unable to. After death situations would be covered by a trust or will (or combination), or the state if those were not prepared prior to death.

Reply by Christine/OK on 11/2/13 3:35am
Msg #490990

When I ask if they know what they are signing, I then ask

them to please briefly explain their understanding of that document.

This can be truly revealing . . .

Thanks for sharing, Jan & everyone!

Reply by desktopfull on 11/1/13 1:42pm
Msg #490890

I would not prevent a dying person their peace of mind about declaring their wishes. I have done this for a couple of people, but I make sure that they have two independent witnesses (not related to the person or receiving a bequest) available.

Reply by MW/VA on 11/1/13 2:53pm
Msg #490914

Each person has to make their own decision about situations

like this, as well as POA's & Wills. I'm a compassionate & empathetic person. While I can't practice UPL, I can usually feel whether the person is being taken advantage of or is just trying to get their affairs in order in their final days.
Most of these matters can be contested in court if there was someone who wanted to do so.

Reply by Les_CO on 11/1/13 3:07pm
Msg #490918

In most cases the notarization of the signature of the testator does nothing to make the document ‘more’ valid, it would be the signatures of the ‘witnesses’ and the notarization thereof that would make the will more ‘self-proving’…..JMO

Reply by doglover/CA on 11/1/13 3:27pm
Msg #490922

I agree with you. One time I went to see an ill, elderly woman who needed a power of attorney notarized. Her attorney and caregiver were present, and discerned that she was not in a state of mind to be aware of what is going on, so the signing and notarization did not take place.

Reply by LKT/CA on 11/1/13 6:59pm
Msg #490954

Yes, I've found it very humbling and heartbreaking when notarizing for a terminal signer. I've had several such appts - the most difficult signer to see was a woman in her mid thirties with a grade school age daughter. The doc was to sign over guardianship to her mom. The woman had either ovarian or cervical cancer and when I was called, I was told she had 3 days left. She was at home, on hospice with the family around the bed. The bedroom was large and there was about 8 other people in the room. Like someone else said, I felt like an intruder. She was hooked up to everything, but was able to communicate with me, looked at me and nodded as I asked a few questions. She signed and I went into another room to notarize. I didn't want to take the fee. The family member trying to pay me had to talk me into taking the money.

In a post several days ago, I was saying to someone about offering sage, experienced advice from several notaries (including me). His question was a GNW question. I didn't write that to toot my own horn or pat myself on the back. I said it to say that while many notaries, even in CA, primarily handle loan signings and GNW is their secondary source - if at all, GNW is my primary source - it's pretty much all I've handled since I was first commissioned in 2007. And it's the sole reason why I became commissioned. So when I comes to GNW, I've seen and experienced much in the area.






Reply by sueharke on 11/1/13 7:15pm
Msg #490958

I've notarized for free and was not concerned about waiting time for POA for financial affairs and health care directives for veterans with alzheimers. The best experience was when the next door neighbor was an attorney who verified the signer was competent to sign the documents and explained the documents to the veteran. Give the opportunity, I would do it again.

Secondly, I notarized documents (POA, health care directive, documents to sell property to pay for her medical bills - all prepared by a lawyer) for a daughter whose mother was in a car accident and was hospitalized with brain damage from the accident. The mother understand what she was signing and once again I never looked back from that experience and would do it again.

Reply by Christine/OK on 11/2/13 3:37am
Msg #490991

Heartbreak :-( n/m


 
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