Posted by Linda_H/FL on 11/6/13 5:56pm
Msg #491639

How do people do this?

I know..only down here -

Had a signing this afternoon - lady had told me during confirmation call she had current ID..

I get there - name on ID is not what's on docs and she has nothing else - now I know this happens but this specific event just boggled my mind.

She WAS Jane Smith. Got divorced 6 years ago, and her maiden name was restored but she never put anything into her maiden name. Everything remained in her married name.

She bought this current house AFTER her divorce - yes, still using married name.

Last October (2012) her license comes up for renewal and she decides to revert to her maiden name - Jane Jones.

She has nothing else current in the name of Jane Smith - and this loan app was taken and went all the way through underwriting with her using her married name.

And they worry about us at the table. Sounds to me like the loan officer really dropped the ball on this little game.

Good grief.

Reply by 101livescan on 11/6/13 6:08pm
Msg #491642

This, and the borrower not have a current valid Photo ID, are very current issues these days.

Amateur hour LOs.

Reply by MW/VA on 11/6/13 6:09pm
Msg #491643

OMG! What are people thinking when they do this kind

of thing? Especially in today's world of current ID's being such a critical factor. There's a trend for women getting married not to change their names. I can completely understand that. ;-)

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 11/6/13 6:19pm
Msg #491651

As I was leaving and we were saying our parting comments

she made an aside that got me thinking there's something up here..

I told her this is going to continue to happen and, jokingly, said "you need to decide who you are!" -her mother laughed, she laughed (which was good cuz she'd just been in tears) ...she then said "I just never bothered to change anything, for a number of reasons".

Things that make ya go hrrmm...

This now has to go all the way back through underwriting - in her prior name. Square one..

Reply by Notarysigner on 11/6/13 6:38pm
Msg #491652

Re: As I was leaving and we were saying our parting comments

Linda, I swear this is true. I recently had a signing where the "girlfriend" came in place of the wife because the wife was in disneyland with the kids. I was alright for her to sign, from everybody since they were all friends although they where "switching marriage arrangements" (what ever THAT means). With husband, girlfriend in room, wife on cell phone to give her O.K. I called the loan officer. He o.k.'d the "substitute" signer for the wife soon to be ex wife.
I DIDN'T GET IT .....AND DIDN'T DO IT! I SWEAR THIS IS TRUE!

Reply by doglover/CA on 11/6/13 6:43pm
Msg #491653

Re: As I was leaving and we were saying our parting comments

The loan officer should not have o.k.'d having the other woman sign in the wife's place unless she had an approved POA. What was he thinking?

Reply by Robert522TX on 11/6/13 6:51pm
Msg #491654

...makes you rub your head! :) n/m

Reply by CJ on 11/6/13 7:02pm
Msg #491660

My worst id fiasco.

The deed was vested in Niels Crane and Maris Crane, husband and wife. But Maris told me as she handed me her ID that she was NOT Maris Crane and she never was Maris Crane, because she never changed her name to "Crane" when she got married. (ID reflected maiden.) So, technically, I can't even get 2 witness to swear that she is "Maris Crane" because she just told me that she was not Maris Crane. I told her that I could NOT notarize since "Maris Crane" does not even exist. Well, Maris was LIVID and yelled. I explained that it is a felony for me to do it, plus a $50,000 fine and jail time. They didn't care. They said, "All the other notaries did it and nothing happened to them!"

They were just going to bully me into doing it, like they did to "all the other notaries". (And if she never WAS Maris Crane, then how did she get her name that way on title anyway?)

Reply by Linda Juenger on 11/6/13 7:21pm
Msg #491663

Re: My worst id fiasco.

I had a LO, which was the borrower's son in law, draw up docs on what the family calls her, not her real name. I get there and the ID is not even close to the docs. Get SIL on phone and all he says is "whoops", just have her sign and he'll take care of it later. No can do buddy. I must admit, he sounded like he was really sorry on the phone. He apolgized over and over to both of us.

Redraw, 2 full fees.

Reply by Linda Juenger on 11/6/13 7:29pm
Msg #491664

Re: My worst id fiasco.

I had another lady who was a mess and actually cried at the table. NOTHING matched anything, ID, docs, credit cards, SS card, signature card at her work. No One caught it. The lowly, bottom of the totem pole notary catches it.

After it was a no-go and sitting and just chatting, I asked her who she wants to be. She had been married, divorced, married, widowed and remarried again. She was in an ID mess. She was so grateful that someone took the time with her and kind of forced her hand to get this mess straight. I went back about 2 weeks later to sign her and she was soooo happy.

How in the world do these companies get by with this? Beyond me. And they say we aren't doing our jobs and we have to use a script. BS

Reply by Notarysigner on 11/6/13 7:33pm
Msg #491668

lLinda,..just read the soon to be "script"..that scenario

isn't in it. LOL

Reply by VT_Syrup on 11/6/13 10:22pm
Msg #491692

Re: My worst id fiasco.

CJ's story has built into it the idea that a person can only have one name at a time. But that isn't really the case. I'm not sure if a person can have two true names at once (if that even means anything). But a person can certainly conduct their personal affairs under both a true name and an alias at the same time. I know of nothing that would prevent credible witnesses from identifying a person as the person known by the alias, and the notary notarizing a document signed with the alias. If Samuel Clemens were alive today, I see no reason he couldn't get a document notarized using the name Mark Twain, as long as he had credible witnesses to testify he was known as Mark Twain.

Reply by MikeC/TX on 11/6/13 11:01pm
Msg #491695

Re: My worst id fiasco.

"I'm not sure if a person can have two true names at once (if that even means anything). But a person can certainly conduct their personal affairs under both a true name and an alias at the same time."

You can use whatever name you want to use, as long as you're not trying to defraud anyone by doing so. But you can only have one "true name"; otherwise, what would be the purpose of an ID document? Can you (legally) get a driver's license or a passport using different names?

"If Samuel Clemens were alive today, I see no reason he couldn't get a document notarized using the name Mark Twain, as long as he had credible witnesses to testify he was known as Mark Twain."

Samuel Clemens never used the name Mark Twain for anything other than a pen name, one of several he used, so that's a bad example.

Reply by VT_Syrup on 11/7/13 10:29am
Msg #491751

Re: My worst id fiasco.

Names come out of traditions; the traditions of England have been the most important in American legal circles; we shall see if other traditions make any inroads. ID documents came later and they have just been tacked on to the naming traditions without ever overhauling the underlying laws. Can you provide a law or state supreme court decision from Texas indicating a person can have only one true name? Even if you could, what about a visitor from a state that has no such law?

As for two IDs with different names, one could have a passport in one name and a driver license in another. Whether one would be required to change one's name on one of the document to make them match is a tricky issue that would require research, and might depend on exactly why the names were different.

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 11/7/13 4:16am
Msg #491705

What you forget, VT - is that

credible witnesses are for instances when the signer has no current, valid government issued issued ID - if the signer has current valid ID (as in my case) then credible witnesses do not apply.

Reply by VT_Syrup on 11/7/13 10:34am
Msg #491752

Re: What you forget, VT - is that

The laws in a few states do seem to indicate that a person with current valid ID can't use credible witnesses. But there are many states which have no such restriction, including mine. Even in states that seem to have that restriction, we won't really know if a person who has valid ID in the wrong name (or a name that isn't appropriate for a particular transaction) can use credible witnesses for the transaction at hand, until that issue comes before a court and the court decides what the law really means.

Reply by MikeC/TX on 11/6/13 7:53pm
Msg #491675

Re: As I was leaving and we were saying our parting comments

"With husband, girlfriend in room, wife on cell phone to give her O.K. I called the loan officer. He o.k.'d the "substitute" signer for the wife soon to be ex wife."

That has to be the weirdest scenario I've heard yet. Good for you, James, for not going through with it - that was a lawsuit just waiting to happen...

I think in many cases the LO is only worried about one thing - commission. One of the BO's could die in front of you at the table, and the LO would just tell you to have someone else sign.

Reply by Christine/OK on 11/6/13 8:51pm
Msg #491688

Too funny, James! Yep, no one could make this stuff up! :D n/m

Reply by MikeC/TX on 11/6/13 7:46pm
Msg #491672

"And they worry about us at the table. Sounds to me like the loan officer really dropped the ball on this little game."

That, in a nutshell, is exactly what's wrong with this proposed code of standards - it addresses the alleged problems with signing agents, telling them what they can do and how to do it (I hope the IRS is watching), but does nothing about the mistakes that happen on the lender side of the transaction which are usually what screw up the signing.

Reply by Claudine Osborne on 11/6/13 8:26pm
Msg #491678

The other day I signed..The seller with her new fiancee who was buying the home that she and the soon to be Ex were selling..She signed the seller documents then the fiancee signed the buyer docs and later in the day I signed with the soon to be Ex..Im so glad TC explained all that to me! Easy peasy..lol

Reply by MW/VA on 11/6/13 8:35pm
Msg #491681

Except that the proposed code of standards is there to

provide an income stream for XYX. One of these days they'll get it that notaries are not as dumb or gullible as they would like to think. ;-) LOL

Reply by CJ on 11/7/13 12:49am
Msg #491700

Why can't Title just LOOK at the ID?

What are they getting paid for if not to verify who owns the property? When the Lender Code of Conduct and the Title Code of Conduct comes out, they BOTH need to be checking the ID!

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 11/7/13 12:32pm
Msg #491776

Wow - absolutely amazing...the lady called me today

She went and changed her driver's license BACK to her married name - her loan officer told her that would be the easiest thing to do.

Yeesh.

Reply by MAC/WA on 11/7/13 4:15pm
Msg #491856

I had one where person must have been in Witness Protection

First and last name different; no proof she had changed her name. ID matched old name. Loan in new name, rest of info matched to her. She had moved from East Coast to West Coast. Title never told me a thing. At the signing table I called Title and told them I wouldn't do the signing. Apologized, referenced state law and left.

Reply by JanelWI on 11/8/13 2:02pm
Msg #491979

The worst I have had so far was a very big lender we all

close for handing out Harp loans sat on the phone with me over a drivers license that expired over a year and told me that it did not matter. These loans were not subject to ID verification. I replied, "So, I can just toss out the Patriot Act ID Form then and have the borrowers sign and you can all notarize the docs when they get back...is that what you would like me to do? Because if you want me to witness signatures, I need to see a "current" form of government issued ID before I can do that". I heard him cover the phone and he said to his supervisor, "She is not going to do it, she is worried about her job". then I heard "click".

The other one was the name on the ID in no way matched the name on the paperwork. After I tried every civil, professionally patient way I could think of to tell her that this was not going to sign, yet another very well know company says to me..."Well, dear. We approved the loan, we know she is who she says she is". I retorted, "Really, you know that how? Because she said it?, or her government ID says it? You know...the one that you failed to verify. Which is it? Because I can open the phone book and find ten other exact names and you can decide who they are for me too!". She then said to me, "If you are not going to do your job, then we will have to find a notary who will". I said, "You are not looking for a real notary public, you are looking for a criminal". She also hung up on me.

You ever get the feeling that these so called rules and regulations are only there for appearances sake? The minute they don't serve their immediate purpose....we get labeled as "the problem".