Posted by Molly Richardson on 11/7/13 2:42pm
Msg #491815

Mortgage Connect/LandSafe

So like....
I did a signing back in October for Mortgage Connect. They don't pay hardly anything but unfortunately, in this climate, I have to take them due to bills and all. Stinks but I gotta' do it....even though I know I am worth so much more....but that aside, I completed the DOT using the clients name in the correct fields, etc. Mortgage Connect requires fax backs of critical docs....which was done. Just got the signature page returned to me (a month after the signing was completed), from LandSafe, asking me to fill in the verbiage individually and as trustee. I know in VA it is okay to fill in that after the name....but at this time, how do I know if they hold as trustee? I never saw a document validating that? I don't feel comfortable doing this? My notary hair on the neck is up a bit? I called Mortgage Connect...the woman I spoke with felt I was being argumentative and hung up on me because I told her I didn't feel comfortable signing a document that is a month old (back dating) along with writing in verbiage that I am unable to validate. I called NNA, they said I was being reasonable and they confirmed that I am allowed to write in the verbiage but only if "I know" by seeing a document. OK.....phew.....so what do you think I should do? Am I just overreacting?

Reply by Matt_VA on 11/7/13 2:52pm
Msg #491817

Did the BO sign as trustee on any docs? Not sure what your saying here.

Reply by Stoli on 11/7/13 2:53pm
Msg #491818

From the California notary Public Handbook 2013

From the California notary Public Handbook 2013

Please note: ..."provided the form does not require the notary public to determine or certify that the signer hold a particular representative capacity..." Trustee is a 'capacity' thereby is prohibited by the State of California.

"A notary public may complete a certificate of acknowledgment required in another state or jurisdiction of the United States on documents to be filed in that other state or jurisdiction, provided the form does not require the notary public to determine or certify that the signer holds a particular representative capacity or to make other determinations and certifications not allowed by California law."
Any certificate of acknowledgment taken within this state shall be in the following form: (Example of California-compliant acknowledgment)

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 11/7/13 2:53pm
Msg #491819

For clarificaiton, your name has "CA" after it

yet you say "I know in VA... " - are you in VA or CA?

And I don't think you can just "do it" - you need the original document back or have a new one executed - but either way you need to revisit the borrowers for an in-person acknowledgement, and the ack is dated with the current date - not the previous date. At that time you can ask for information about the trust - if you're entitled to that or required to see it. Here in FL we're not required to see it as verifying their authority to sign in that capacity would require an interpretation of the trust, which is UPL.

Reply by Molly Richardson on 11/7/13 3:17pm
Msg #491829

Re: For clarificaiton, your name has "CA" after it

I am a va notary
Used to be ca
And no, the BO just signed their name
The verbiage was typed under the signature line

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 11/7/13 3:21pm
Msg #491833

Thanks Molly -

"And no, the BO just signed their name"

They didn't sign as Trustee? and LandSafe didn't pick that up?

Again, my second paragraph - IMO it's a new visit with the current date - you cannot backdate.

Reply by desktopfull on 11/7/13 2:55pm
Msg #491821

What does CA notary law say about doing this?

You must follow the law applicable in your state.

Reply by Molly Richardson on 11/7/13 3:24pm
Msg #491837

Re: What does CA notary law say about doing this?

I understand that I need to follow the law of the state I am commissioned....the issue here is that the lender sent me a doc to be redone that is a month old, requesting backdating, along with asking me to write in the verbiage of "individually and as trustee" after borrowers name on ack, without seeing any proof of trust. I can "assume" the title company has trust docs etc (obviously) but as the notary, how can I validate that and complete the title companies request with clear conscious....???....not having been provided that information during time of signing? I am probably making a big tado of nothing but it just doesn't "feel" right.

Reply by desktopfull on 11/7/13 3:34pm
Msg #491848

My response to the party would be "NO!" This is a re-do. n/m

Reply by Matt_VA on 11/7/13 3:29pm
Msg #491842

The signer needed to sign with the verbiage the was under the sig. line.
They signed with that capacity. Title should send the docs to the signer to correct. And as stated, it should have been caught with the fax back. I would not do it, but you will no doubt get dropped for it. IMO

Reply by Molly Richardson on 11/7/13 3:31pm
Msg #491846

Thanks all!
And getting dropped won't be the end of the world....especially with getting paid only $80 with fax backs

Reply by desktopfull on 11/7/13 3:36pm
Msg #491850

That fee is why I dropped them, just do some marketing, you

will find a replacement.

Reply by Stoli on 11/7/13 5:38pm
Msg #491868

Linda, check me on this--

It depends how the name was typed under the signature line. Asking the hiring party is always a good idea in cases such as this.

If the name and capacity are typed, “Jane Doe, Trustee” below the signature line, have the borrower sign as it is typed.

If the name and capacity are typed, “Jane Doe, Individually and as Trustee”, do not have the borrower sign the capacity of 'Trustee".

Signing “Trustee” limits the capacity, and only applies to the authority of the “trustee” and eliminates the authority of the “individual”.

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 11/7/13 7:40pm
Msg #491887

Re: Linda, check me on this--

"If the name and capacity are typed, “Jane Doe, Individually and as Trustee”, do not have the borrower sign the capacity of 'Trustee".

Signing “Trustee” limits the capacity, and only applies to the authority of the “trustee” and eliminates the authority of the “individual”."

I disagree here - if typed individually and as trustee, they should sign individually and as trustee

Technically, there should be 2 signature lines - one for individual and one for trustee. But if you have them sign only as individually, then the trustee has not signed for the trust. Same if vice versa. If title is held both individually and in trust, then both should sign.

Reply by Stoli on 11/7/13 8:39pm
Msg #491898

Thank you, Linda.

That’s a new one for me---I’ve never been asked to have the borrower sign the ‘individually and as trustee’, but I've received documents with three signature lines: 1) trustee, 2) individual, and 3) settlor of the trust.

I quit trying to guess a long time ago and ask the hiring party their preference.

Thank you for the response.

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 11/7/13 9:07pm
Msg #491903

Asking the hiring party every time is the best thing you can

do - every lender is different, every title company is different, every situation is different.

If unclear - always, always, always ask -

Reply by BobtheElder on 11/8/13 5:27am
Msg #491926

Re: Asking the hiring party every time is the best thing you can

Asking the hiring party won't do much good, she already said they asked her to back-date a document, which is never allowed.

Reply by jba/fl on 11/8/13 8:33am
Msg #491942

Re: Asking the hiring party every time is the best thing you can

In that case, there is no further discussion and should have ended immediately.

Reply by JanetK_CA on 11/8/13 10:49pm
Msg #492041

Re: Asking the hiring party every time is the best thing you can

I agree, Linda. This should be asked BEFORE every trust signing. I've been instructed to sign with every single option that been mentioned in this thread, plus others not mentioned. Bobbi/CT gives what sounds like some pretty good explanations of why that happens. (I wouldn't know, but she would!) However, we have no exposure to that information - and it does significantly vary by lender. (And maybe it varies by state, too?) Some lenders never want you to have the borrowers sign trustee, regardless of what is typed under the signature line, saying that the typed in verbiage has it covered.

But there's no way I would write that in next to a borrower's signature for them. The lender or tc probably has a LPOA to make those kinds of corrections. I don't know VA law, so I don't know if that change would mean a change in the notary certificate would be called for. But here in CA, since we can't include capacity anyway, I would imagine they could also just send the doc back to the borrowers and have them add it on to what they already signed. (Just speculating.)

Reply by BobbiCT on 11/8/13 7:23am
Msg #491932

I agree with Linda ...

Done regularly in my world - often because the Trust does not have sufficient income or cash cash assets to pay back the loan; the Trust's only asset is the real property that is being pledged to secure the loan.

What the two signatures in two different capacities are doing:

Obligating the signer as Trustee - Trust assets will be pursued in the event of a default.

VIP: Obligating the signer as an Individual - PERSONAL assets will also be pursued to pay the loan or in the event of a default. Commercial Trustees never sign in an individual capacity; the signer will always write "Trustee" after his/her name to make it very clear "don't go after my personal stuff".

Obviously, the usual not legal opinion, advice and not an attorney.