Posted by Anita Edwards on 11/22/13 10:55am
Msg #493688

NNA vs NAR

I am wondering if the NNA is trying to become more like the NAR with their codes of conduct and ethics and classes and training and dues. There really is no comparison when you look at the job descriptions of each organizations members. If that's what they are trying to accomplish they really need to get a life. Just a thought

Reply by C. Rivera Chicago Notary Services on 11/22/13 10:56am
Msg #493689

Nat'l Assoc of Realtors?? n/m

Reply by Anita Edwards on 11/22/13 11:00am
Msg #493691

Re: Nat

Yes. But they are rightful in their requirements and most all of it is built around discrimination practices. There really is no comparison between the two but it occurred to me this morning that that may be what NNA is thinking they compare to and trying to strong arm us into believing they can do that.

Reply by C. Rivera Chicago Notary Services on 11/22/13 11:17am
Msg #493693

the problem with this whole thing is vast, but beside from

latest topic of discussion, a huge issue I have is the fact that the XYZ has not publicly addressed its efforts in how its working toward establishing the Notary Signing Agent as a legal occupation or profession?

Like the legal assistant and paralegal professions, that are legally recognized as actual occupations, so to must the Notary Signing Agent along side the Notary Public, like the legal assistant and paralegal.

Can you imagine when this happens? Schools and universities will bust out, creating new real classroom training, degree or certification programs!

Why hasn't the XYZ utilize their "nationally recognized association" to try to get this accomplished?

Because this not-for-profit is ALL about PROFIT, greed and monopolization in this arena.

Reply by Anita Edwards on 11/22/13 12:10pm
Msg #493701

Re: the problem with this whole thing is vast, but beside from

And our charges for our services will continue to be beat down in the amount. I've heard this week that supply and demand calls for a price reduction. Last summer when business was booming if one company gave me a lot of business then that also called for a price reduction. We just can't win. Our prices for supplies and memberships do not go down.

Reply by MW/VA on 11/22/13 1:52pm
Msg #493718

I've heard that comparison made. I'm not in RE, but have

heard that membership is a "requirement" for licensed agents. RE Agents make big bucks (commissions), and everyone wants a piece of the RE pie.
We're not in the same position. We're at the bottom of the food chain, and already get paid the lowest amt.

Reply by Marazz/AZ on 11/22/13 6:53pm
Msg #493760

Re: I

Dunno if it's true everywhere, but in my area you didn't have to join NAR, but if you didn't, you don't get MLS access. Chapped my hide quite a bit to have to join NAR when I was appraising.

Real estate is all about supply and demand. In slow times, realtors get squeezed for $$$ just like everyone else in the equation. About the only thing that's sacred is the 3% that goes to the buyer's agent. Most realtors I know work pretty hard for their money.

Reply by NVLSlady/VA on 11/22/13 7:44pm
Msg #493770

NAR

that's the national assoc. but generally there is a Realtor assoc. in each state that the agent can <choose> to belong to. Once licensed, you can act as a Real Estate agent; but the "realtor" designation is only for members of the assoc. The community has been "trained" to look for the Realtor vs. the "agent." they are sold on the fact that a "realtor" has committed to a Code of ethics (sound familiar?)

Some R.E. offices insist that its agents all be NAR members; the assoc has its own arbitration process for one thing (real estate is extremely cut-throat so arbitration is often needed) and discounts on supplies. The assoc dues and signs, lock boxes, continuing ed classes and e&o cost a fortune. It is one expensive biz to be in. And you'd better not use the 'R' logo unless you're one of 'em.

p.s. VA alone has tons of NAR organizations: VAR; NVAR (No. VA assoc of Realtors); DAAR (Dulles Area); Piedmont; Prince William (PWAR)

Reply by BrendaTx on 11/22/13 7:51pm
Msg #493771

"Like" - Nice explanation. n/m

Reply by NVLSlady/VA on 11/22/13 7:57pm
Msg #493772

Re: "Like" - Nice explanation.

Why, thank you, ma'am. I know just enough about real estate to know I hated being a salesperson (one thinks an nsa wears multiple hats; there isn't enough heads on a successful real estate agent that don't get tossed around in every direction possible)

Reply by MikeC/TX on 11/23/13 12:57am
Msg #493800

Re: NAR

"that's the national assoc. but generally there is a Realtor assoc. in each state that the agent can <choose> to belong to."

Not exactly. I'm a former Realtor; I know that there are 3 levels - national, state, and local. The bottom 2 both roll up to the national level - so if you join at the local level, you also pay annual dues to the state and national organization. It's not cheap, but the biggest difference is usually at the local level, because they are the ones who control the local MLS system, and costs to maintain it vary from one location to the next. When I was in NY, I was paying about $500/yr for membership in LIBOR - the Long Island Board of Realtors - and they got most of my dues. The rest (which really wasn't all that much) went to the state and national organization.

"Some R.E. offices insist that its agents all be NAR members"

There's a reason for that - some local boards (LIBOR was one of them) require that all agents in a brokerage have to be members, or the entire brokerage would lose their access to MLS. That would be the equivalent of cutting off your right hand... The brokerage I worked for had something like 60 offices and hundreds of agents; you can bet they made sure ALL of their agents renewed their dues every year... It's the local boards that control access to MLS, and they make their own rules. You can do real estate without access to the local MLS, but it makes a difficult job harder.

"the assoc has its own arbitration process for one thing (real estate is extremely cut-throat so arbitration is often needed)"

The NAR Code of Ethics, which every Realtor must agree to, covers just about everything that can happen in a real estate transaction. Arbitration is not needed all that often because believe it or not, most Realtors are honest and decent people just trying to do a job. But just like everywhere else there are "problem children", so there is a process in place to deal with complaints, whether they are consumer vs Realtor or Realtor vs Realtor. Sanctions can include anything from a fine to the loss of membership (and that's before the state weighs in, which could mean more fines and loss of license).

"The assoc dues and signs, lock boxes, continuing ed classes and e&o cost a fortune."

Yeah, it's not a cheap business to be in. I got out when I finally realized that the money was flowing in the wrong direction...

"And you'd better not use the 'R' logo unless you're one of 'em."

True - it's a trademark and they vigorously defend it. They don't want it to become a generic term like "Kleenex" or "Xerox".

"p.s. VA alone has tons of NAR organizations: VAR; NVAR (No. VA assoc of Realtors); DAAR (Dulles Area); Piedmont; Prince William (PWAR)"

Not surprising at all - these are local boards, all of which roll up to the state and national organization.

Reply by MW/VA on 11/23/13 8:38am
Msg #493817

Thanks for the great info. ;-) n/m

Reply by MikeC/TX on 11/22/13 8:14pm
Msg #493775

As a former member of both the NAR and the NNA, I can assure you that there is no comparison. Without going into the boring details, there are a huge number of reasons why the two will never be the same. The NAR is huge organization with an active local presence in every state; the NNA answers questions based on CA notary law, which often doesn't apply to the other 49 states.

The NNA might want to be like the NAR; I would like to be able to play basketball like Michael Jordan. The possibility of either happening is somewhere at the intersection of slim and none...

Reply by Lee/AR on 11/22/13 9:15pm
Msg #493786

The similarities are there if you're old enough to remember

NAR started out 'voluntary', but it grew up and got to be a big bully with the advent of MLS (pay to play). The huge difference is that the NAR actually does try to help its members and has a fair amount of success, too.

Reply by C. Rivera Chicago Notary Services on 11/23/13 12:42am
Msg #493797

<<NAR is huge organization with an active local presence in every state>>

Yep, and if NNA wants to earn ANY respect from its current members, imo, they should consider modeling their NSA program, after the following organizations, in addition to the NAR:

NFPA (National Federation of Paralegal Association) or NALA (National Association of Legal Assistants). Both orgs have cannons, standards and etc. But more importantly, both of these orgs are LEGALLY recognized in the courts in most states, AND have a local and national recognitions that are truly RESPECTED!

I'm surprised that the NNA has yet established local associations in every state like these organizations have?

Reply by HSH/WA on 11/23/13 1:14pm
Msg #493837

Re: You can be licensed in RE and not

be a Realtor just like you can be a notary and not belong to XYZ. But like the Realtors XYZ is heading in the direction of being the industry standard and the day may come when it will make sense to join them just like it makes sense to be a Realtor if you want to do listings etc. If you are in RE there is almost an assumption that if you are not a Realtor, something is shady. In my area the Realtors control the MLS so if you want in on all the listings and have a key to lock boxes, you join. XYZ has the go to BGC and is headed to the industry standard Cert. Singing Agent. If it becomes widely adopted by SS/TCs it will be like the NAR in it's control. JMO

Reply by MikeC/TX on 11/23/13 6:30pm
Msg #493880

Re: You can be licensed in RE and not

"In my area the Realtors control the MLS so if you want in on all the listings and have a key to lock boxes, you join."

That's not correct - a non-Realtor has access to the basic info (the same as the public has). What they can't see are things like the commission structure and any special notes the listing agent might add. As long as they are licensed by the state, they have a right to take part in the transaction. Unless the listing agent thinks they can sell their own listing and keep the full commission, they're not going to try to stop another licensed agent from showing and possibly selling it. They don't get a dime unless the sale closes, so why turn away potential business?

In most cases where there is a lock box, there is also a courtesy key available at the office for those agents who for whatever reason are not able to open the lock box. The newer lock boxes are electronic and require a card key to open, but those boxes are expensive and have to be paid for by the agent. Many agents use either much cheaper boxes with a combination lock (and their office WILL give you the combination when you call to show the property) or have the old-style lock boxes that can only be opened with a specific type of circular key. Although the company that made those older boxes went out of business year ago, I was able to buy that key for $5 on the Internet.