Posted by Shoshana/AZ on 11/16/13 10:17pm
Msg #493075

OMG, Be careful what you wish for.

Tonight I came face to face with AZ SOS Ken Bennett. I was at a holiday open house hosted by our Mayor and his wife. Believe me, I never expected to see him there. Anyway, I started to talk to him about some of the things going on with the NNA and SPW. He gave me his card and asked me to email him. So, my question now, is what do I say? I am at a loss for words. I will entertain suggestions from people via email. My email is: [e-mail address] . Emails only please. I will not discuss this publicly in any forum.

About the title of this post: I happen to believe that the mind is very powerful. I would have to say that for a few days this has been on my mind. I had questions like, who should I contact? How can I help? What would I say? Well, now I have to deal with it.

Reply by LKT/CA on 11/16/13 10:35pm
Msg #493076

<<<About the title of this post: I happen to believe that the mind is very powerful. I would have to say that for a few days this has been on my mind. I had questions like, who should I contact? How can I help? What would I say? Well, now I have to deal with it.>>>

I so agree with you. I will start thinking about someone I haven't seen or spoken to in a good while. Out of nowhere, I'll start thinking about them -wondering how they're doing and what they're up to these days - and either they call me on the phone, or I'll call them and they'll say, "I was thinking about you"...

Reply by Marazz/AZ on 11/17/13 8:37am
Msg #493085

Well very cool that you got his ear, nice! But bear in mind he's a career politician/bureaucrat so use little words and small sentences. Not to sound insulting but he's not down in the weeds with notaries, he deals with a ton of stuff as SOS that is probably larger in his mind that notary work. You may have to connect dots for him, don't expect him to automatically draw conclusions.

I would write out a list of my concerns. Let it sit, sleep on it, come back to it a few times. Perhaps post here for suggestions.

Then for each concern, write out what you think his action items are.

Then prioritize the things on your list that truly impact NOTARY work as opposed to signing agent work. He's not going to care about signing agent stuff, unless the results of what's going on is compromising notary work. Send the top 3-5 things to him. Use bullet points and be very short and to the point.

Most of the things people here are upset about lately are signing agent issues, not notary issues. Although the SOS might be happy to know what's going on, I seriously doubt he is going to care enough to do anything about any of it. Not that you shouldn't try to get the word out if you want.

I suspect you will find out that (at least in AZ) the lenders still hold the big political cards and what they say goes. (I'm quite sure he knows what happened to Felicia Roteliini over at AZDFI).

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 11/17/13 8:45am
Msg #493086

"Most of the things people here are upset about lately are signing agent issues, not notary issues"

Touche - that's exactly what I've been trying to get across. Notary issues AND this group's interference with a business; also their promotion that their product is better than any other out there - a fight that must be waged by competitors of those products, like NotRot (for the E&O and BGC) and any legitimate provider of signing agent certification programs (who shall remain nameless to avoid conflict - but there are several out there far better than the "organization").

Reply by Marazz/AZ on 11/17/13 9:24am
Msg #493087

I agree Linda, I don't even see how it rises to the level of interfering with business. Lenders are being asked to jump through (stupid, ineffective, meaningless) hoops to show they are now responsible, ethical business entities who can be trusted to get back to (their shady) business as usual. NNA etc is offering them a service that checks this box off their checklist. NNA seemingly has enough political clout, or organizational efficacy to be the "go-to" people for lenders and title companies (and title companies ultimately live and die by their lenders, do not expect them to go out on a limb for notaries).

IMHO it comes down to this: real estate is a cyclical business, and right now lenders have the upper hand. In most areas the supply of signing agents exceeds the work, so expect to jump through those hoops if you want to work. If things were booming, lenders would find a reason not to care about bg checks or who did them (most of them, anyway).

That said, I do think there are a couple viable ways to fight NNA/SPW that have a decent chance of being effective.

Filing SS8 forms asking for determination of employee/contractor status (based on the level of direction they want over your work). You only need ONE notary to be advised they would be considered an employee before SPW would be dropped like a hot potato by title companies or lenders. Anyone ever deal with the IRS? What are the odds you're going to get the same answer, every time? File as many of these as humanly possible - it doesn't cost a thing.

The other thing is to watch what NNA/SPW is doing carefully and any time you find them making a claim using a lender or title companies' name, write letters to everyone you can get a name and title for at the head of that bank or title company, and CC all the alphabet soup folks in Washington and at your state financial regulatory agencies. I honestly can't see where any laws have been broken. But showing them that NNA is turning the new regs into a profit center for themselves may get some attention. The downside of this is that when lenders see a way to turn something into a profit center, they usually form a subsidiary to keep those profits for themselves!

Basically you just want to show lenders and title companies that drinking the NNA kool aid is going to be inconvenient for them.

If someone can set up a competitive (yet equal, results-wise) system, and lobby for that a bit at the high levels of lenders, title companies or CFPB, that might help as well.

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 11/17/13 9:54am
Msg #493088

To answer quickly - and haven't read all yet

IMO it interferes with MY business when an independent, self-appointed authority tells others that unless I'm a member of that particular group, and vetted by them, I am not qualified to render services to them. Because I may not carry the CSS designation, and have my BGC from elsewhere, I am not good enough to work with/for them..

tortious interference....blackballing - two terms that come to mind that have statutes attached to them...

JMO

Reply by Marazz/AZ on 11/17/13 10:53am
Msg #493096

Re: To answer quickly - and haven

Thanks Linda. (And not arguing with you, just playing devil's advocate - I'm totally on your side!)

I see your point. But there is quite a difference, legally, between saying, use our members who have met these qualifications, and blackballing someone. The SPW is not saying, don't use this notary; it's the title companies or lenders making that choice - and they're totally free to use any service provider they wish. And the lenders are going to say, we have to meet these standards and SPW was the easiest way to do that on a national scale. Seriously doubt you'd have legal standing there to sue anyone.

But I'd love to hear a lawyer's take on the whole thing - has anyone passed it by an attorney?

JMO that to fight this legally is going to be time consuming and expensive (and I haven't yet seem the legal standing to sue someone, but I'd love to be wrong about that).

To fight it by making it inconvenient for the lenders or title companies (having to answer IRS queries for example) or offering a similar service as a competitor, might prove more effective in the end. If you get told you're no longer on a panel of approved notaries because you're not with SPW send letters to anyone who will listen showing how your qualifications are as good or better. Pester people who are decision makers with your good title companies etc.

Reply by Shoshana/AZ on 11/17/13 12:45pm
Msg #493100

Thank you for your ideas Marazz. I will definitely keep your suggestions in mind. I am quite sure that he will be running for Governor this time around. If you are anybody else have anything specific you would like me to include please email me privately.