Posted by jojo_MN on 11/20/13 12:57am
Msg #493357

SPW Code of Conduct - FASS

A couple minutes ago I received an email with this attached from FASS asking to read and sign. This was one of my best clients for many years. My question is, do we sign and send in as stated, or cross out any items we don't agree with?

To further confuse, this is how it is stated:

"Attention Signing Agent!

The purpose of the Code of Conduct is to enable Signing Professionals to operate according to the highest standards of practice expected of like professionals in the settlement services industry.

The Standards may contradict the policies or expectations of the contracting company (FASS), especially with regard to notarial practices. Please note and understand that the Code is a model for preferred conduct. The law should never be violated if compliance with the law is against the wishes of the contracting company (FASS) or any other party to the transaction.

Please review and maintain a copy of the Code of Conduct that outlines the “Standards of Practice”.


Please sign and date the document, page 24, and send back page 24 only to..."



Talk about contradictions!!! I'm sure we will be getting many more requests for this from others. Did anyone seriously read this dribble before it was published?

Reply by BrendaTx on 11/20/13 1:43am
Msg #493358

WTH?

Could it be that a dual personality disordered person wrote that. I thought it was really a fun read, though.

Reply by jojo_MN on 11/20/13 2:28am
Msg #493361

Re: WTH?

The part I copied above was from the email from FASS.

They copied it from page 2 of "The Code" under the heading "Contracting Company Expectations."

Yes, Brenda, it is a fun read. Unfortunately, these companies are buying into it. We, the notaries, are going to have to agree if we want work. I will not agree to it as it is written.

Reply by jojo_MN on 11/20/13 2:36am
Msg #493364

This is the exact quote from The Code

"A Specialist should never violate the law if compliance with the law is against the wishes of the contracting company or any other party to the transaction." --taken from page 2 of "The Code".

So, should we violate the law if the contracting company wishes us to? lol

Reply by JanetK_CA on 11/20/13 2:53am
Msg #493366

Re: This is the exact quote from The Code

It seems that that poorly written item in their Code has been frequently misunderstood. I think what they're trying to say is that the law gets priority over any requests. But this item also is the only place I've seen any reference to the issue of contracting companies putting out illegal requests. IMO, there needs to be another set of standards for both title co and lender practices in relation to document signing. As we all know, they're missing a major piece of the problem pie! At least with this Code entry, they're acknowledging that our first obligation is to comply with our own state law.

Reply by Lee/AR on 11/20/13 11:02am
Msg #493404

While I think I know what they're trying to say...

that sentence is garbled beyond belief. Words and wording are important so that the meaning is clear. This one definitely needs a do-over.

Reply by jojo_MN on 11/20/13 11:55am
Msg #493411

Re: While I think I know what they

That is my point, exactly. This "Code" is supposed to be followed by all notary signing agents, yet they can't even take the time to proofread and make sure that everything in it is correct. In my opinion, this is just something that someone put together in a couple days time and submitted it to be the answer to the lenders and title companies compliance issues. I don't believe for one minute that they spent many months putting it together. The following excerpt shows just that. Under normal circumstances, in my opinion, they would not have needed to add this disclosure.

More from the SPW Certified Signing Specialist Code of Conduct, page 2:

"Revision of the Code. The Certified Signing Professional Code of Conduct is not intended to be static and unchangeable. Its organization allows the separable Standards to be added, deleted or amended with little or no disruption of other elements in the Code. While the 10 Guiding Principles of the Code are sufficiently general to embrace considerable change in the duties and practices of Certified Signing Specialists without amendment to their current form, it is likely that the Code’s Standards may in time need revision or supplement to accommodate technological developments. Periodic review and revision of the Code is intended. The most current version of the Code and a list of version changes will be made available upon release."

Reply by jba/fl on 11/20/13 6:12pm
Msg #493463

"will be made available upon release.""

It hasn't even been released and can be revised until then.

It has not been released. Get it?

Reply by jojo_MN on 11/20/13 10:14pm
Msg #493495

Re: "will be made available upon release.""

Actually, it has been released. We are already getting it in our emails and being asked to signed and return. The paragraph states that changes can be made at any time and you would get the most updated version that will be made available upon release. At least that is the way I interpreted it. Please correct me if I am wrong.

Reply by JENNY/TX on 11/20/13 6:42am
Msg #493372

1st draft of my reply to the Code of Conduct

This is just my first draft. I will be reading the document again several times and make my changes accordingly before sending "Just the last page".
________________________________________________________________________________________
Certified
Signing Specialist
Code of Conduct

Introduction:

I would like to know who, if any, Certified Signing Specialists other than SPW and NNA had any input into this so called Code of Conduct. Since there are no Certified Signing Specialists at this time, how could they have any input?

The NNA is not the final authority on all things notary. My state has that authority. In my opinion, and this is only my opinion, the NNA has done a lot to harm the very signing agents they profess to represent.

I welcome good business standards, honesty and integrity by all parties whether Title, Lender or Notary.

GUIDING PRINCIPLE 1: QUALIFICATIONS

I have no objections to this section.

GUIDING PRINCIPLE 2: NOTARIZATIONS

I have no objections to this section.

GUIDING PRINCIPLE 3: IMPARTIALITY

I have no objections to this section.

GUIDING PRINCIPLE 4: UNAUTHORIZED ADVICE OR SERVICES

4.9 It is the responsibility of the title company\lender to furnish contact information on the confirmation email.

GUIDING PRINCIPLE 5: ILLEGAL AND SUSPICIOUS ACTIVITY

5.5 It is the responsibility of the lender or closing agent to make sure the POA is in place before sending the documents to the notary. Have them do their job.

5.8 Again, have the lender or closing agent do their job. Don’t send documents to the notary with blank spaces or documents that are incomplete.
 

GUIDING PRINCIPLE 6: PRIVACY AND CONFIDENTIALITY

I have no objections to this section.

GUIDING PRINCIPLE 7: FEES

I have no objections to this section.

GUIDING PRINCIPLE 8: ADVERTISING

I have no objections to this section.

GUIDING PRINCIPLE 9: PROFESSIONALISM

9.5 There is no script that will ever be able to cover all contingencies we encounter during a signing. Using a script will not give the borrower a sense of confidence in the notary. Using a script sounds fake and the borrower will think of telemarketers. Quite often we take our cues from the borrower about what they want to see first (i.e., HUD).

9.8 Reviewing the documents is always the best policy. Just have title\lender deliver the documents four (4) hours prior to the appointment. We cannot be expected to print, review and package the documents when they are sent two (2) hours or less prior to the appointment when they have no idea of the driving conditions and time to reach the appointment at the appointed time.

9.14 I will be glad to show the borrower my commission issued by my state. I will also show them my driver’s license but only with my address and license number redacted.

GUIDING PRINCIPLE 10: STANDARDS

10.3 I WILL NEVER TRAIN MY COMPETITION. It is not my profession to train anyone.
 
CERTIFIED SIGNING SPECIALIST’S ACKNOWLEDGMENT


I have read The Certified Signing Specialist Code of Conduct and agree to perform signing services in conformance with the Standards of Practice of this Code including the stipulations above.

_______November 22, 2013____________________
Date

____________________________________________
Certified Signing Specialist’s Signature (I am not authorized to use this designation as yet per your GUIDING PRINCIPLE 8: ADVERTISING, SECTION 8.3 )

___Virginia P. [e-mail address]_

Certified Signing Specialist’s Printed Name (I am not authorized to use this designation as yet per your GUIDING PRINCIPLE 8: ADVERTISING, SECTION 8.3 )


These three (3) pages were faxed to First American (FASS) @ 888-616-0178

Reply by Bee_CA on 11/20/13 8:33am
Msg #493381

Re: 1st draft of my reply to the Code of Conduct

Thank you Jenny/TX. You hit on the items that I highlighted while going through the code. There are several items, such as 5.8, that I just had to shake my head at because I have been asked to "just notarize it and the county recorder will fill in the blanks" on a Subordination Agreement. Anyway, thanks for posting this.

Reply by Lee/AR on 11/20/13 9:31am
Msg #493396

I have major issues with the whole Fee statement on the Code

Specifically: * marked are my objections or suggestions for improvement
j. Guiding Principle 7: Fees
The Certified Signing Specialist will follow all contractual obligations in charging and collecting fees for services rendered. *provided same are accurately and completely conveyed at time of hire and nothing changes in the field. Additional note: Package size DOES matter. Ditto faxbacks and # of pages—not ‘documents’.
k. 7.2. Performance for Fee
The Certified Signing Specialist will not refuse to perform services for an assignment that the Specialist has previously accepted in dispute over a negotiated fee. *same as above

Reply by Notary On The Go on 11/20/13 9:51am
Msg #493399

Thank you Lee n/m

Reply by HrdwrkrVA on 11/20/13 11:40am
Msg #493408

9.8: Amen! In the Dc area, a 15 min drive may take you 30-45

min!

And Lee:
You are soooo right! I got a 200 pg pkg - not the usual 100-115 - "...would an extra $15 help?" Too bad they couldn't see my eyes roll over the phone! I had another signing right after, so I HAD to decline! I'd never been able to print (much less go thru it) that in time to make my appt! ...and don't get me started about the 'extra' $15! Whew!

Some of theses TCs/SSs actually want you to fax back ENTIRE pkgs for $15-20; a 52 pg faxback recently cost over $100 @ Kinkos. The TC wanted it right away & pd for it - one of my better clients. No problemo.

Reply by C. Rivera Chicago Notary Services on 11/20/13 1:06pm
Msg #493421

it appears the the SPW NNA group is trying to once again

monopolize the market when it comes to the NSA and our job. The problem I have with this new group is huge, and much the same as most on this forum. Another issue I've been pondering is the fine line between Independent Contractor vs. Employee via the IRS guidelines.

One can argue (and here is where I miss PAW the most for his invaluable input) that the SPW's guidelines and certification program, border on the "employee" side. If you read the IRS guidelines, below is the link to a pdf, its interesting. I'm doing my own research in obtaining actual court cases relating to this subject.

I guess my opinions about this group keep evolving and I seem to have a number of "what ifs" scenarios playing out in my mind.

But the one question that is just bugging the hell out of me, is why? Oh well, I guess we'll never get a straight answer but I'm certainly going to try.

http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/p1779.pdf

Reply by John/CT on 11/20/13 7:37pm
Msg #493482

Independent Contractor vs Employee

My reading obscures the line with: Guiding Principles 8; Standards of Practice 1.5, 1.7, 2.4, 2.5, 2.6, 2.8, 2.11, 4.4, 7.8, 9.5, and 10.3. Am I reading too much into this?

Reply by jnew on 11/20/13 3:15pm
Msg #493445

Legal but contradictory.

What I would like to hear from this new group is how to handle a situation where the code of conduct and the signing instructions to the notary conflict and neither violates the law. Does your status as a certified signing specialist enter into jeopardy if you strictly follow the signing instructions and perhaps violate the code of conduct. One matter which might be relevant is explaining documents. I have yet to see where the line is drawn between familiarizing the borrower with the documents and violating the instructions to never explain the figures to the borrower. Some of the instructions strongly emphasize not answering questions about the loan. It looks like an excellent way to blame any confusion on the part of the borrower on the signing professional.

Reply by C. Rivera Chicago Notary Services on 11/20/13 3:22pm
Msg #493447

Re: Legal but contradictory...Excellent point!

I'd say one of the main purposes of this group is to "legally" establish the CSS as a scapegoat...

Reply by MikeC/TX on 11/20/13 7:24pm
Msg #493475

"The law should never be violated if compliance with the law is against the wishes of the contracting company (FASS) or any other party to the transaction."

That's a very convoluted and confusing way of saying that you must comply with the law. The law must never be violated. Period. Who cares what the contracting company wants or doesn't want?

"The Standards may contradict the policies or expectations of the contracting company (FASS), especially with regard to notarial practices."

Translation: It's now OK for you to say "no" if you're asked to backdate or go forward with the closing when the borrowers can't provide proper ID. As if I needed your permission before...

Reply by John/CT on 11/20/13 7:25pm
Msg #493476

I received the same, also. Hey, wait a minute ... big problem: I am not a Certified Signing Specialist! How can I sign the document as such? Still waiting for a response from FASS.

Reply by Ken Johns on 11/20/13 7:30pm
Msg #493480

I signed it, but what can they do,
I am a Independent Contractor. I believe I will add that to all my emails along with Professional Signing Agent

Reply by Rita Adu on 11/21/13 10:42am
Msg #493536

I fired FASS about a year ago

Never been happier

Reply by Exclusive Mobile Notary on 11/21/13 11:28am
Msg #493549

Stop accepting lowball FASS...

you're hurting the profession!!