Posted by CarolF/NC on 11/25/13 6:25pm
Msg #494053
Setting an industry standard is not price fixing
I wish my hairdresser, plumber , gardner, auto mechanic would operate the way signing agents do and accept whatever fee I offer them and undercut their competitor.
| Reply by MikeC/TX on 11/25/13 8:08pm
Msg #494066
Yes, it definitely is price fixing.
Several members of NR were questioned a year or so ago by the DOJ because of allegations (probably from low-balling companies) that NSAs were trying to set minimum prices.
This is why most here will not discuss what they charge or what they are paid. It's illegal for independent contractors to band together and demand a minimum fee for services, or attempt to form a union.
Your hairdresser, plumber, gardner, auto mechanic, and whatever else may or may not charge the same as their competitors, but I can pretty much guarantee that they haven't consulted with their competitors to figure out what to charge...
| Reply by CarolF/NC on 11/25/13 8:30pm
Msg #494069
You interpreted a lot into n/m
| Reply by CarolF/NC on 11/25/13 8:33pm
Msg #494071
Re: You interpreted a lot into
My post that was not said. Charge what you are worth , what the market will support and stop undercutting fees. There is nothing illegal about that. If you want to think so, so be it.
And I need to stop posing from my iPhone. Always freezes and posts before I'm done.
| Reply by MikeC/TX on 11/25/13 9:11pm
Msg #494078
Re: You interpreted a lot into
"My post that was not said. Charge what you are worth , what the market will support and stop undercutting fees."
What you said was that setting standards was not price-fixing. That's incorrect.
Charge what you think you are worth, but don't expect that the market will agree with you and DO NOT suggest that others charge the same amount by saying you want to set a standard.
As for others undercutting your fees - it happens, and there is nothing anyone can do about it. That's what competition is all about. It's impossible to make a profit when your expenses exceed your income, so eventually these knuckleheads will be forced out of business. Until then, there's not much you can do other than to put up with it...
| Reply by MAC/WA on 11/26/13 12:42pm
Msg #494148
Interesting...collusion is a violation of anti-trust law, determining what your competitors pay/charge in your area is legitimate and necessary market research.
Also, We are independent businesses and have a right to organize. Have u heard of chambers of commerce, the National Federation of independent businesses, state and federal associations of real estate agents, brokers. physicians, lawyers...
We can also unionize as do many trades and professions: plumbers, musicians, actors.
So whoever keeps saying we can't is dead wrong.
| Reply by MikeC/TX on 11/26/13 6:46pm
Msg #494181
"We are independent businesses and have a right to organize. Have u heard of chambers of commerce, the National Federation of independent businesses, state and federal associations of real estate agents, brokers. physicians, lawyers..."
We can certainly organize into associations, but those associations you mentioned do NOT set standard pricing - that would be illegal. For example, I was a Realtor and member of the NAR for several years. That association provides a lot of training and advocacy for its members. Its local chapters can restrict access to MLS to only dues-paying members, making it an exclusive club (they created and maintain the MLS, so they have that right), but it doesn't breathe a word about commission structures because that would be illegal. We were told that even discussing commissions with a competitor over a cup of coffee could get us in trouble...
"We can also unionize as do many trades and professions: plumbers, musicians, actors.
So whoever keeps saying we can't is dead wrong."
The difference is that the unions you referred to are dealing directly with employers The unions negotiate contracts with the employers; the people you are referring to actually get hired as employees under IRS rules. They don't get a bunch of 1099s at the end of the year; what they get is one or more W2s.
We, however, are independent contractors. Even if a union of ICs were allowed by the NLRB (and it's not), exactly who would this union negotiate with? There are no employers to negotiate a contract with, no employee status available, and you can't fix prices with your competition - so what would the purpose of such a union be?
If some of you still want to pursue the dream of creating a notary union, knock yourself out. You don't have to believe me - just do a little research on labor law and you'll find out that it can't be done.
| Reply by MAC/WA on 11/27/13 12:06am
Msg #494208
I'll say it again, "We are independent businesses and have the right to organize." (We also have the right to join [an existing group].)
As professionals, we have the right to organize ourselves into a group or to join an existing group.
You apparently agree: "We can certainly organize into associations..."
You go on to say: ..." but those associations you mentioned do NOT set standard pricing - that would be illegal."
It wasn't me that said we can set prices:. Please re-read what I wrote: " ...collusion is a violation of anti-trust law, determining what your competitors pay/charge in your area is legitimate and necessary market research." (Source: Small Business Administration).
No one's twisting your arm, man, no one's making YOU do anything. Dream your own dream.
| Reply by MAC/WA on 11/27/13 12:33am
Msg #494209
I'll say it again, "We are independent businesses and have the right to organize." (We also have the right to join any "group".)
As professionals, we have the right to organize ourselves into a group or to join an existing group.
You apparently agree: "We can certainly organize into associations..."
You go on to say: ..." but those associations you mentioned do NOT set standard pricing - that would be illegal."
It wasn't me that said we can set prices:. Please re-read what I wrote in a post above: " ...collusion is a violation of anti-trust law, determining what your competitors pay/charge in your area is legitimate and necessary market research." (Source: "An FTC Guide to The Anti-Trust Laws" and numerous articles on the Small Business Administration's website).
No one's twisting your arm, man, no one's making YOU do anything. Dream your own dream.
| Reply by MAC/WA on 11/27/13 12:35am
Msg #494210
Sorry, didn't mean to post three times, don't know how it n/m
| Reply by LKT/CA on 11/25/13 8:32pm
Msg #494070
There is one industry standard I'd like to see, such as no notary working with a company who doesn't pay in 30 days or less. Not enough business minded folks for that to happen. The employee minded group are grateful to receive it whenever it hits their mailbox - 60/90/120/180 days.
| Reply by CarolF/NC on 11/25/13 8:34pm
Msg #494072
Personally if I was getting the 300 n/m
| Reply by CarolF/NC on 11/25/13 8:35pm
Msg #494074
Never mind. iPhone is jacked up tonight. n/m
| Reply by MW/VA on 11/26/13 8:59am
Msg #494102
Many of those people you refer to are employees, and
prices are set by their employers. We live in a competitive marketplace. IMO all business price their goods/services according to what the going $$$ are. We also have "levels" of goods & services. There are the discount brands, better brands, best brands, etc.
I'm really not understanding your "soap box" here, Carol. You posted a while back that business was almost non-existent in NC. Do you think any of these efforts will bring your more business or are you just shooting yourself in the foot?
| Reply by C. Rivera Chicago Notary Services on 11/26/13 10:25am
Msg #494133
FTC information and link below...
"Dealings with Competitors: Price Fixing
Price fixing is an agreement (written, verbal, or inferred from conduct) among competitors that raises, lowers, or stabilizes prices or competitive terms. Generally, the antitrust laws require that each company establish prices and other terms on its own, without agreeing with a competitor. When consumers make choices about what products and services to buy, they expect that the price has been determined freely on the basis of supply and demand, not by an agreement among competitors. When competitors agree to restrict competition, the result is often higher prices. Accordingly, price fixing is a major concern of government antitrust enforcement."
http://www.ftc.gov/bc/antitrust/price_fixing.shtm
| Reply by MW/VA on 11/26/13 10:49am
Msg #494140
Thanks, Carrie. That's great info. ;-) n/m
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