A lot to unpack here...
I am in no way suggesting that non-citizens can join in and decide our representatives, our laws, or our policies. They can't vote, and counting them in a census will not suddenly give them that right.
However, I do unequivocally believe that illegal aliens should be counted as part of a district if they domicile in the district because that comports with the way the text was written.
Had the intention been to exclude all but those who could vote, the text would have been very different, because back then, only white male property owners over the age of 21 could vote. And although that may be unbelievable to us today, the people of that time were perfectly OK with that.
A free black man who owned property (and there were some) could not vote. The free man, white or black, who worked in a shop or worked on a farm owned by someone else (and there were plenty) could not vote. Slaves and indentured servants were not citizens - they were property. Women couldn't vote, and of course, neither could children. These people had no say in deciding who represented them, our laws, or our policies. Counting them in a census didn't give them any more rights than they already had - yet they were still counted.
The purpose of the census is to count bodies and apportion representation based on that body count - the fact that one is not supposed to be here doesn't change the fact that he IS here, and not counting him is just pretending he doesn't exist. That does NOT mean I support them being here, only that we should acknowledge the fact that they are here.
"Since you did not actually address my actual argument it must have been an effective one, wouldn't you agree?"
Actually, I laughed when I read it. Census forms are not mailed to everyone in a particular location on a given day, nor do census takers go looking for them. It's not like the government orders us to freeze in place so they can count us. The analogy really made no sense to me.
"While the protections of our Constitution are afforded to citizens and anyone whose feet are planted on U.S. soil, the belief that non-citizens have the right to vote in our elections, have a right to have a say when it comes to picking OUR federal representatives, or to believe that their voice should be heard and responded to above any citizens' voice when it comes to drafting legislation and/or laws is a delusional belief"
No one, including me, is saying that non-citizens should have a right to vote in our elections or have any voice, etc. You're misunderstanding the argument. The census is not about voting and representation rights, it's about how many people - regardless of status - are living in what parts of the country. You said it yourself in your first sentence - the protections of the Constitution are afforded to anyone whose feet are planted on U.S. soil.
"The "fear of an ICE raid" argument on this topic is just as fallacious as the argument that if local law enforcement officials work with ICE that illegal aliens will not report crimes for fear of being deported."
Seriously? Haven't you been following the news lately? The very people Trump promised he would not seek to deport are the ones being swept up by ICE. Decorated combat veterans who served this country. Respected members of the community who have lived here for 30 years or more, raised a family, paid taxes and contributed to their community. The father who is arrested by ICE after taking his kids to school - in front of his kids, Just the other day I saw something about 30+ people rounded up in a single raid. Families are being ripped apart, something Trump said he wouldn't do. And you think the argument is fallacious?
Come on. Chris - Trump specifically said they would only target the "bad guys" - the criminals - and not break up families. It was just another one of his lies. The criminal element is too hard to find, so ICE is going after the low hanging fruit, the people they can easily identify. There have been many cases where immigrants were detained as they voluntarily reported to Immigration to update their status. Immigrants have been detained when they showed up in court to respond to a civil case. The government already knows where all of the DACA kids live - do you seriously believe that ICE will not be going after them if and when the current court injunction protecting them is lifted?
This has nothing to do with unpaid traffic tickets or court no-shows. If people are asked to indicate on the census form whether they or members of their household are citizens, they will have four choices - leave the question blank, lie about it, refuse to return the form, or answer truthfully. If they choose the last one, ICE will know where they are. Current ICE activity says that could be a bad idea for them.
Personally, if that question is on the form I receive, I will leave it blank. |
